The Ship Model Forum

Is anyone aware if this book covers anything to do with naval electronic warfare/radar in WWII?
It seems the author was in the RAF and I already have Howse & Friedmans naval works on the subject, but wondered if this has anything naval also?

Instruments of Darkness. The History of Electronic Warfare
By Afred Price
Originally by William Kimber publishing, London 1967. Reprinted by Macdonald and Jane's, London, 1977 and now also reprinted again by Greenhill Books, London 2006

"The rapid evolution of radio and radar systems for military use during World War II, and devices to counter them, led to a technological battle that neither the Axis nor the Allied powers could afford to lose. The result was a continual series of thrusts, parries and counter-thrusts, as first one side then the other sought to wrest the initiative in the struggle to control the other. This was a battle fought with strange-sounding weapons: 'Freya', 'Mandrel', 'Boozer' and 'Window'. It was a battle characterized by the bravery, self-sacrifice and skill of those who took part in it. During the war, however, and for many years after, electronic-warfare systems and their employment during the conflict remained closely guarded military secrets. When that veil of secrecy was finally lifted, the technicalities of the subject helped ensure that it remained beyond the reach of lay researchers and readers. Alfred Price, an aircrew officer with the RAF where he flew with V-Force and specialized in electronic warfare and air fighting tactics, was both inspired by the subject and in the unique position to lift the lid on this largely unexplored aspect of World War II. When it was first published in 1967, Instruments of Darkness came to be regarded as a standard reference work on this intriguing subject. Since its initial appearance, it has been expanded as important additional material has become available. This completely revised edition ends with the Japanese surrender in August 1945 and brings the analysis fully up to date in the light of what we now know."

Cheers
LB

Hi Laurence

I have the Greenhill 2005 edition and it is very poor on naval radar. There are a few snippets here and there eg. on Seetakt and Japanese naval radar types in the Pacific, but overall it is heavily biased toward air warfare and I would say its not worth buying just for the small amount of naval info. which you could easily get from the books you already have.

Mark

Thank you very much Mark, that's another crossed off the wants list

Laurence
I have in the shed ( aussie will understand the meaning of "in the shed") some articales from the RN Engineering Journal of the eights on the the developmenty of RN radar and countermeasures about 80 pages. I haven't seen anything like it any where eles. Please let me know if want it

Graham Murdoch

"in the shed"
might be there!
last seen 14 years ago!
may have been eaten my mice!
could be buried under 14 tons of unsued Tupperware! or lefthand VW doors!

Hi Laurence,

Do you know about this site:

http://www.rnmuseumradarandcommunications2006.org.uk/

Dear Linux,

I most certainly do! I have hoovered up EVERYTHING off of there. Damn fine site and I must have saved 100s pages from it on W/T, HF/DF, Radar etc for the RN in WW2. It really is a treasure trove

Dear Graham,

Most certainly yes please! Your shed can't be as bad as mine "floor in there last seen 5-years ago"
Let me know if you can find it again and then we'll sort it via pm or email.

Cheers
LB

Ok I will dive into the "dark deapths tomorrow" see what I come up with I wonder which box it might be in ?

Graham Murdoch
"

Boy are you lucky these have been found they survived the 20/20 rule
Rule 1 all items in the shed are reviewed every20 years and then set aside to a second 20 year review these are in to second review !!! I also had the ECM article seems strange that these have never been printed for general use
I have scanned them in at 150DPI 39 page of just the radar bits 12mb I have set up a photobucket account so I will test my geek skills( very limited ) to try and place them there and sent you a link

Graham Murdoch

Superb, I await the link
Many thanks for doing this Graham!

Laurance
Ok I have done my geek thingy they are in my photo bucked account
http://s719.photobucket.com/albums/ww199/graham003/

if this works thern I will do the ECM bits some time this week

Graham Murdoch

Excellent Graham,

Another radar article I had not seen!
May I ask please what is the JNS journal this comes from? It is a journal unfamiliar to me.
On some of the pages scanned I can see the words Restricted stamped at the bottom and so is this the Journal of Naval Science perhaps?

Many, many heartfelt thanks
Laurence

Laurence
Glad you found it useful it comes from a MAY 1987 Journal of Naval Science a RN internal publication the Journal had general classification of Restricted but the articles are then given a individual classification, this article was unclassified, I checked before I asked for it but the when I got a copy from the library they just over stamped it !!! I through that I had removed all the markings.
I will work at the ECM article in the next couple of days.

Graham Murdoch

Laurance
I have now put the Radar Countermeasues articale on to my Photobucket account Hope you find it interesting I certinaly did

graham murdoch
From beauful Waikiki Beach Perth WA
Shark1 Bankmanager 0 a WIN/WIN if ever there was one !!!

Duly copied and printed off.
Thank you once again for taking the time to do this for me....more things to read!
Happy New Year
Laurence

Hi Laurence

If you are into gathering WWII Radar sources at the moment then you should also look out for copies of the two excellent Macmillan Press Ltd. books edited by F.A. Kingsley for the Naval Radar Trust.

F.A. Kingsley (Ed.) for the Naval Radar Trust Radar: The Development of Equipments for the Royal Navy 1935-45. Macmillan Press Ltd. 1995. 476 pages. ISBN 0-333-61210-8

F.A. Kingsley (Ed.) for the Naval Radar Trust The Applications of Radar and other Electronic Systems in the Royal Navy in World War 2. Macmillan Press Ltd. 1995 400 pages. ISBN 0-333-62748-2

I have a copy of the first one, but the second volume is rarer than golden hens teeth !

Mark

Dear Mark,

I wasn't aware the Naval Radar Trust had produced those 1995 publications.
I did find their archival collection deposited at the Churchill archive, Cambridge:

http://janus.lib.cam.ac.uk/db/node.xsp?id=EAD%2FGBR%2F0014%2FNVRT
http://janus.lib.cam.ac.uk/db/node.xsp?id=EAD%2FGBR%2F0014%2FNVRT%20AS

Any idea how one obtains said publications?
Did you try an inter-library loan for the 2nd?
Did you ever write to Macmillan Press Ltd.?

Many thanks
Regards
Laurence

Hi Laurence

I found the first volume in a secondhand bookshop in Hay on Wye (Richard Booth's Bookshop) where they occasionally have some rarer WWII naval volumes in stock. As I pass through there once every couple of months or so with work I usually drop in to see what they have. They certainly knew how rare the volumes are and promptly charged me £50 for the first volume!

Inter library loan might be possible for the second volume, but I had no luck trying to find it via Macmillan Publishing and their subsidiaries.

Mark

Well they are certainly now added onto my ever expanding wants list pinned to my notice board!
I wonder if I can at least get it by Inter-library loan or in fact they may have copies of one or both at the IWM, as that probably has the largest collection of military books in Europe.
Thank you for bringing them to my attention, if they are as rare as they appear I doubt it would do me much good phoning up all the maritime book dealers in the UK.
Cheers
LB

The largest collection is held by the British Museum, NOT the IWM.
Try one of the MOD libraries.

According to the IWM themselves they hold the largest collection of Military books in Europe all under one roof.
British Library may use a series of stores scattered around the country perhaps? and of course do not have just military.

It is a shame I have finished university now, I use to be able to order anything free-of-charge (journal or book) through inter-university loan from any British university or from the British Museum in about a week.
I wonder if my 2 local libraries have access to the British library inter-library loan capability?