Calling all Benson-class & Gleaves-class DD fans

[Graham Boak]

Thanks. I had already glued the lookout shields into place, so clipped the top from the directors so that it looked as though there was something in place - a 1/700 seat is rather beyond my skills, let alone two identical ones.

Moving further through the assembly, I don't see any other problems, but am a little baffled with sprue F, and the parts NOT to be used. Twin Oerlikons ok, but whereas I presume that part F6 is a twin Bofors, where is its mount? D12? Just what are parts 2 and 3? 7 looks like a 5in barrel for a more traditional kit. Are these made clear in the Livermore kit, or do they indicate yet more versions to come?

[Sr. Gopher]

I believe that the full twin bofors is located on that sprue. The 5 inch barrels are optional to use, either that or the trainable ones.

[Rick E Davis]

Graham,

I can't answer all of your questions, but I'll try.

F6 are twin 40-mm barrels and you are right, I think F2 and F3 are the mount base and vertical mount bracket (proper term?). The quad 1.1-in mount parts are on D sprue ... D12, D5, D6, and D7. I checked the special edition 1/350 scale 1945 BUCHANAN kit and the twin 40-mm mounts were all on one sprue by themselves ... go figure. These are very TINY parts.

F7 are barrels with canvas blast bags. The bases for the 5-in. mounts and barrels for mounts without the blast bags are on H sprue ... H3 and H5. The options allow you to use either type and/or make your own blast bags.

[Graham Boak]

Thanks: yes, I've spotted D12 on the quad now.

There's a view of the assembled twin 40mm on Steel Navy, in the review of the 1/350 Buchanan (or one of the kits, anyway), so I'll use that as a guide. This is not needed until the second kit, so it can be put into the pending file. I was just curious about the parts. The only piece used from the F sprue is the quint torpedo tube, although I rather wish I'd used the guns with blast protectors.

Very tiny pieces. Oh yes, with feeling.

[Rick E Davis]

I actually puzzled on parts F2 and F3 at first. I pulled out the 1/350 scale BUCHANAN 1945 kit to see how the twin 40-mm mounts were laid-out in that kit and then realized F2 & F3 were the parts for the twin 40-mm mounts. Better have some tweezers.

[Sebastien Lausdat]

Hello
I am trying to paint my USS Buchanan in camouflage Measure 31 Design 3d.
When I compare the starboard side in the drawing of the Navy and the photo, I see a difference of the painting part in Ocean Grey at level the 5 in. turrets.
See the links below :

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0548419.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 172885.jpg

I'd like to hear your opinion?
Seb

[taskforce48]

Hello
I am trying to paint my USS Buchanan in camouflage Measure 31 Design 3d.
When I compare the starboard side in the drawing of the Navy and the photo, I see a difference of the painting part in Ocean Grey at level the 5 in. turrets.
See the links below :

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0548419.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 172885.jpg

I'd like to hear your opinion?
Seb

Seb,

This is one of the more open to interpretation aspect of the ships of the WWII USN. There was recently a discussion on how the decks were left to the very last before the anti slip mats and camouflage painting was done due to the higher than normal traffic while in the yard. Also, ships crews were given these design sheets and sometimes there just wasn't time to get it 100% and close enough was ok. I would say a photo is way more accurate than a design sheet, even if she was repainted 5 minutes after that photo was taken, you can still say that you got it right for at least one point in time where you have the photo to back it up. But like they say build it your way, what makes you happy as that is what really matters. Looking forward to seeing more progress on your builds.

Matt

[MartinJQuinn]

For those wanting to build a square bridge version of this class, Admiralty Modelworks is coming to your rescue:

Gleaves Class Destroyer Square Bridge Item # 350/201 $ 35.00
This item is a square bridge to fit the 1/350 Dragon USS Buchanan kit to make it into the last 20 Gleaves variants that had "square" bridges.
The accessory has resin parts and photo-etch. The items include search lights, signal lights, fighting lights and details in both resin and Photo-etch which includes the lookout seats and binoculars!

According to the e-mail I received this morning, it should be available soon.

[Rick E Davis]

Sweet....

[PeteM]

For those wanting to build a square bridge version of this class, Admiralty Modelworks is coming to your rescue:

Gleaves Class Destroyer Square Bridge Item # 350/201 $ 35.00
This item is a square bridge to fit the 1/350 Dragon USS Buchanan kit to make it into the last 20 Gleaves variants that had "square" bridges.
The accessory has resin parts and photo-etch. The items include search lights, signal lights, fighting lights and details in both resin and Photo-etch which includes the lookout seats and binoculars!

According to the e-mail I received this morning, it should be available soon.

What were the hull numbers on the square bridge Gleaves?

[Rick E Davis]

The Square-Bridge GLEAVES (no BENSONS) were:

Seattle-Tacoma Built units

DD-493 CARMICK
DD-494 QUICK
DD-495 ENDICOTT
DD-496 McCOOK
DD-497 FRANKFORD
DD-624 BALDWIN
DD-625 HARDING
DD-626 SATTERLEE
DD-627 THOMPSON
DD-628 WELLES

Federal Shipbuilding built units

DD-618 DAVISON
DD-619 EDWARDS
DD-620 GLENNON
DD-621 JEFFERS
DD-622 MADDOX
DD-623 NELSON

DD-645 STEVENSON*
DD-646 STOCKTON*
DD-647 THORN*
DD-648 TURNER*

* The last four Federal built units had the staggered 40-mm/20-mm layout on the aft/mid deckhouse area. Number of weapons are the same, just the order of them is different.

[Erik W]

I'm getting to the point where I'm about to rig my DD-616 Nields build. I have the Warship Pictorial #12 Benson/Gleaves Class DD book for a reference. Before I begin, are there any other photo or diagram sources for rigging this class of ship out there? Also, were the Bensons fitted out in the late war anti-kamikaze configuration rigged any differently than a typical Benson?

Thanks,
Erik

[Rick E Davis]

Erik,

I have tried posting images of rigging patterns with mixed results before ... the antenna leads just don't show up well in many photos. But we will see. Below are three images at different angles of NIELDS and two other BENSONS also updated to the Anti-Kamikaze MOD. They look similar in rigging layout to NIELDS, but some features are different ... spreaders on the second stack. The rigging patterns did seem to change to one degree or another during the war and between ships. So these should be the closest. If they are not adequate, ask for a specific angle and/or send me a message off-line.

DD-616 NIELDS on 21 May 1945 off New York ... fuzzy, but some leads can be made out ... the ones coming down from the top of the mast don't show up at all.


DD-608 GANSEVOORT on 20 August 1945 at Mare Island ... I think this is the best one.


DD-612 KENDRICK on 23 June 1945 at New York ... fuzzier than GANSEVOORT, but gives you another perspective.

[Erik W]

Rick,

Thanks! Those photos should definitely help. I think I can figure the rigging out with those and photos in books I have.

Erik

[falcon04]

In my eternal quest to jump from one project to another - 6 going now - I'm looking back again at the oldest - North Carolina (BB-55) - during one of her shakedown cruises in 1941.

Color pics in the North Carolina "Warship Pictorial" show her escorted by Meridith (DD-434) apparently painted in the original MS-12 (unmodified) as is the NC.

The pics unfortunately are too low resolution to be very useful. Navsource has some pics of Meridith in that scheme, in apparently the same configuration, but again too low in resolution.

I want to do a small diorama showing the turning NC preparing to launch her Kingfisher, followed closely by the Meridith - as in the great photo in the WP.

Questions:

(1) Any pics available of Meridith or her sister ships in the late summer 1941 configuration.

(2) the Dragon 700th Livermore / Monssen kit is the obvious starting point - any help would be welcomed.

[Rick E Davis]

Falcon,

I looked at the Navsource photo of MEREDITH following NORTH CAROLINA and frankly I could tell the scheme.

The images I have

MEREDITH (DD-434) 29 April 1941 in Ms 1 before her aft superstructure was cut down and MG's added.



BENSON (DD-421) on 21 June 1941 in Ms 2 (5-Gun)



HILLARY P. JONES (DD-427) in late 1941 in Ms 12 (5-Gun)



Here is a series of views of NICHOLSON (DD-442) in September 1941 in Ms 12 (4-Gun like MEREDITH appears to be in the NORTH CAROLINA photo)

[falcon04]

Thank you, Rick.

I scanned and clarified the color photo from the WP - the same photo which is at Navsource - and I'm satisfied that it is indeed Ms-12. Also visible is the characteristic "Six-pack" of individual .50 cal. splinter shields on the aft deckhouse - shown on some of your photos and on the Nicholson in particular, which is a ringer for the Meredith's configuration.

Photos of the Meredith at Navsource do not disagree.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/434.htm

I reviewed all your many prior posts and see that at one time you were unable to find a clear overhead pic of the "Six-pack", but I think it may be possible to come pretty close with what is available.

One question - did the .50 use similar ammo ready boxes to the 20mm ?

[Rick E Davis]

Falcon,

Yes NICHOLSON is or should be the same configuration as MEREDITH in mid to late 1941. Almost all of the early BENSON-GLEAVES (DD-421 through 444) went through the King Board modification in June-August 1941 and are pretty close to each other in the two configuration groups. There were nine 5-Gun units (DD421-428, and 431) with ten 50-cal MG's and the rest were 4-Gun with twelve 50-cal MG's. The 4-Gun units with the six-pack MG's, appear to have the MG's staggered port to starboard rather than being a mirror image. The 5-Gun units always looked a little awkward with the two MG's just forward of 53 mount to me. As for the 50-cal MG ready use ammo boxes, look at the photo of ELLYSON on the first page of this thread. There are several styles of ready use boxes, so they may be the same as a 20-mm box, but is unlikely.

[falcon04]

Two more views of "6-pack" BRISTOL (DD-453) and KEARNY (DD-432)

http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/0545309.jpg

http://mysite.verizon.net/sepulcher/kearnyport.jpg

On the BRISTOL - is the catwalk just a temporary, or did some have this permanently on the stbd side ?

On KEARNY, note the ready boxes between the splinter shields.

And WOOLSEY, from Ricks earlier post - note the boxes.

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p303 ... 2Feb42.jpg

Some pics do give the appearance of asymmetry port-stbd for the 0.50's, but most are not 90 degree abeam shots - any more in your library ?

[Rick E Davis]

Falcon,

I don't have many other images from the "50-cal MG era" fully broadside or nearly so. I have not been able to "firmly" nail down the arrangement of the 50-cal MG locations on the aft deckhouse. It is a little hard to pick out, but I think that the starboard 50-cal MG's are spaced more or less equal distance apart. Notice on the portside photos of WILKES and INGRAHAM below, the spacing between the three 50-cal MG's appear to be equally spaced, but a little further forward compared to the Starboard side.

Also, notice on the last WOOLSEY image that the aft most 50-cal MG bulwark is extended out further than the other two. I think that was because of the aft con station.

As I have said, I really would like to find an overhead view or a drawing of this configuration of these GLEAVES class destroyers.

WILKES (DD-441) on 28 July 1941 ... about the most broadside image I have ... note how the aft two pairs of MG's are staggered.


WILKES (DD-441) Summer 1941 (likely same date as above)


WOOLSEY (DD-437) on 8 September 1941 ... note that this view is taken a little more from the stern and that the last two pairs of MG's are sort of in line.


WOOLSEY (DD-437) on 2 February 1942


INGRAHAM (DD-444) in August 1941


Close-up of WILKES


Close-up of INGRAHAM


Close-up of NICHOLSON


Close-up of SWANSON