Calling all Shokaku (翔鶴) and Zuikaku (瑞鶴) fans

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chuck
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by chuck »

Dan K wrote:Just so we're on the same page, Chuck, can you give a sample location or two?
The photo of the deck edge scuppers you posted on page 2 seems to show one of the deck edge galleries near the stern of the ship. Here the floor of the gallery is clearly porforated and the railings are appearently stiff steel tube type, and the men half sitting and half leaning on it seem to ratify that interpretation.

The picture of the forecastly run off pipes under the flightdeck overhang seem to show chain railing around the forecastly, as does the battle damage photo of the shattered forecastle after Coral Sea. (PS what is the little platform hanging under the flight deck overhang?)

But what about all the other platform and galleries cantilevered out the sides of the hull? I will guess the paravane platform has chain railing to allow the railing to be quickly laid down on deck to ease the task of sending the paravane over the side. I will also guess the mesh catwalk connecting forecastle with 1st 5"/40 AA mount has steel tube railing as these no one will think about walking on those catwalks with railing struck down. But what about the rest of them? Are they railed according superstrucutre practice with steel tube rails, or railed like hull sides with chain rails?
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Dan K
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

Michael - well, as you can clearly see, you are dealing with the right folks when it comes to obsessive. References on the IJN are harder to come by, and spottier, so my fellow IJN afficianados & I tend to dig very deep. I used to think I was bad but, Chuck just may dig the deepest of all :-)

You're in luck as much has been recently retooled, esp. Akagi, Soryu, the cruisers, DDs etc. It's a good time to be an IJN modeler. There are no stupid questions. However, I would advise reading thru the appropriate CASF thread for a particular ship or class - there's always some good info there. Also, when it comes to choosing a particular ship, and your interest in its specific history, you'll find this TROMs page (Tabulated Record of Movements) most helpful: http://www.combinedfleet.com/kaigun.htm

Ok, Chuck, let me spill -

Paravanes - I am in error in terms of placement and configuration. All plans, and the Gran Prix Shuppan vol (using Hiryu as an example) show placement at the base of the forwardmost 12.7cm positions, #s 1 & 3. It appears to be a short straight boom, not a davit, anchored on the bottom where the platform meets the the bulge of the mount sponson. This makes sense since photos do show the paravanes stowed forward on the platform. Best evidence is that the boom is controlled thru ropes and pulleys, and not with a solid center post for support, though the positioning ropes running straight up from the boom base to another anchoring pulley placed on the sponson. Hope that's clear.

Boom stowage seems to be lashed horizontally against the hull. The only photo that might show something is the well known commissioning photo of Zuikaku. There appears to be a horizontal object, like a boom, approx. the right length, stowed horizontally above the paravanes laid out on the platform.

Stern anchor - smaller, hence the smaller capstan.

Railings - Photo evidence isn't complete. In keeping with the IJN practice of chain railings along main decks and working areas, the forecastle, stern, paravane platform, port aft garage area, area surrounding port Type 94 director/and observation booth underneath seems to have chain railings with most other areas using solid tube rails. But, we don't have a clear photo of the other sections. I think the catwalks that run under the 25mm mounts, for instance, would have tube railings. FWIW.

On another note, regarding the landing light arrays, if you view the photo on P3 of Zuikaku, summer 1944 where I have ID'd the relocated Type 94 HA director, you can see the arrays sticking out from either side of the flight deck towards the stern. In a hi-rez version, they are a bit sharper. But, not really a good photo for placement purposes.
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

Having viewed some hi-rez photos of Hiryu under construction (KMM volume), I'm gonna say that most catwalks and platforms seem to have solid tube railings.
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by mdreb »

Dan-Are there particular kits I should be looking out for? It is hard to tell on sites like Ebay ,unless it is in the description, if they are the retooled versions.
I don't want to hijack this thread.
I really like the Combined Fleet site, it is well done in my view, found it a couple of years ago.
Thanks!

Michael
Dan K
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

There's no one place that lists everything in an up to date manner, though I find that HLJ.com does the best job of listing everything, including kit numbers. Best way there is to go to advanced search, list the ship name or go via manufacturuer and naval category, then review. Older kits are generally marked as discontinued.

Best thing is probably to ask on this site, main board. Knowledgeable people will chime in.

Based on what you posted, Aoshima's retooled Soryu, and Hiryu, are excellent kits. No news yet about the new Fujimi Akagi.
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chuck
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by chuck »

Thanks, Dan.

Some references seems to suggest the IJN paint the outline of each aircraft on hanger floors, presumably to indicate the optimal packing arrangement worked out in advance. Is this confirmed?
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a hangar deck photo to confirm it but, several Japanese reference books (and translations) mention it and so many official plan sets make a point of showing it that I assume it's true.

Back to landing light arrays - found this photo of Shokaku 1943 landing a B5N2. The forward 4 light array can be seen on each side just about aligned with each wing tip. You can almost make out the 2 light arrays behind them.
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Shokaku landing B5N2, March 18, 1943 small.jpg
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chuck
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by chuck »

Thanks, Dan

Do you have any photos or illustrations of the forecastle showing anchor arrangements? Perhaps photos of the 1:100 model?
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

I'm sure there's something. Are you looking for an overhead of the forecastle, or a side view of the anchors in place?
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chuck
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by chuck »

I am looking mainly for pictures clearly showing both anchor capstans, and determine whether there is a separate main capstan between the anchor capstans like there is in Japanese battleships. I think the broad layout of the chain runs and chaffing plates on Fujimi is approximately accurate based on a set of plans Jim B sent me. But Fujimi depicted the capstan itself as a featureless cylinder, and neglected to depict any other details of the anchor chain run, chain locker opening, etc.
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

All references show just the two capstans, with no third central one. I know that the 1/100 model has some good views so I'll try to scan something tonite. In the meantime, here's the OH plan layout from the Miyukikai set which I happen to have here in the office (don't ask).

Bonus 1: Bottom left show the paravane boom attachment from OH at the base of the forward starboard 12.7cm mount (#1).

Bonus 2: not pictured but the plans show the a/c handling crane covers to open outward.
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Zuikaku 1943 forecastle plan from Miyukikai 1-200.jpg
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

The Hara Shobo plans confirm just two capstans forward. Some scans of this area from both the Futubash 3DCG Shokaku and the Gakken 1-100 Zuikaku.

The Hara Shobo plans also appear to indicate a chain and capstan at the stern. The capstan's leading edge is even with the trailing edge of the two flight deck support columns at the stern. This is also leads me back to think that the anchor is full size. The 1-100 Gakken does show the full anchor, chain and capstan but, the capstan is very much hidden by the reels and platforms around it so, no great views, though one posted below. The capstan appears to be the same size and design as the forward two.
Attachments
Gakken 1-100 Zuikaku forecastle 2.jpg
Gakken 1-100 Zuikaku forecastle 3.jpg
Gakken 1-100 Zuikaku forecastle.jpg
Futubasha 3DCG Shokaku bow 1 crop.jpg
Futubasha 3DCG Shokaku bow 2 crop.jpg
Gakken 1-100 Zuikaku stern crop.jpg
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peppe
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by peppe »

foto from japonese magazine model art # 33, scrachbuilt of capstans in a model in scale 1:350
original have only cilinders
ciao peppe
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capstan0001.jpg
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bucketfoot-al
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HIRYU Dowloadable "Persona" for Firefox Browser

Post by bucketfoot-al »

Here you go guys - just created one for the Hiryu.

The link to my IJN personas for Firefox:

http://www.getpersonas.com/en-US/galler ... ketfoot-Al
bucketfoot-al
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https://battleshipyamato.com
dulce et decorum est pro patria mori
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Atma
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Atma »

A 1/700 IJN Zuikaku out in June by Fujimi, enjoy !
Link:http://www.hlj.com/product/FUJ43052
Dan K
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

I will, thx :thumbs_up_1:
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Atma
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Atma »

The IJN Zuikaku by Fujimi in 1/700 is out:
http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/10144592
Enjoy !
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

Great news! From the kit instructions and parts that I can see, this version has all the correct pieces - relocated Type 94 director and platform, proper tub for Type 21 radar atop the island, extra crew quarters fore and aft. Just great!
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Atma
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Atma »

A IJN Shokaku 1942 version is coming this June in 1/700 by Fujimi.


http://www.1999.co.jp/eng/image/10149057b/30/1
Enjoy !
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Re: Calling all IJN Shokaku-class fans

Post by Dan K »

It will be welcome but, I sure hope the cover art doesn't reflect the actual kit. The new Zuikaku version appears to have the parts for the relocated Type 94HA director moved from atop the island to the port side, aft the orginal one. THe Shokau has the same setup. This artwork doesn't show it.
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