Calling all Illustrious-class (WW2) fans

[shakaan]

Hi there, I've had a good google search for these kits but nothing much sensible has turned up. As the title says, I'm looking for, ideally, a kit form of the HMS Formidable, but the Illustrious has been deemed a close alternative (I don't actually know the difference, I'm enquiring on behalf of another). The time period has been specified as around WWII, so no harrier ramp - ruling out the Airfix and Dragon kits. I have found a website (fleetscale) that do a 1/128 version, but I suspect the fee of ~�1000 is a little steep for my purposes.

Unfortunately, my knowledge of the carriers in question is fairly non-existent, so does anyone have any recommendations as to a good source of source material - pictures, specs etc? Would it be possible to take the Airfix kit and convert it into a 1945 version of the ship? Where then would I obtain 1/350 Corsairs / Swordfish etc to populate it?

Scratch building isn't really an option - I just don't have the time.

Any thoughts, helpful comments, even answers are welcomed.

Thanks in advance.

[Dave Martin]

The French company Heller did a 1/400 scale WW2 HMS Illustrious -
Read about it here -

http://www.modelshipwrights.com/modules ... ent&id=502

[Dick J]

The WW-II CV's; Illustrious, Victorious, and Formidable were all essentially the same design, with a single hangar. The Indomitable was a modified near-sister with a half-length second hangar and some other significant differences. If you find a WW-II Illustrious, you should need only small detail changes for Formidable. (Although some things changed on all three over time - define a timeframe and find pictures to match.)

The kits with the Harrier ramps are not the same ships. They depict much newer ships and are nowhere close in design to the ones from WW-II.

[PaulC]

You didn't mention a scale preference, but the only other kits that could depict Formidable are the Aoshima 1/700 waterline Illustrious and Victorious. They are old kits and seriously lacking in detail/accuracy (e.g. the weather decks, 4.5-inch guns & pom poms!) but are quite easy to come by on eBay.

There are a few pictures of Formidable you can find on-line showing her in disruptive camo (mid-war I think), but full broadside views port and starboard are lacking and the actual colours would be a guess. I don't know if there are any more specific references.

Paul

[shakaan]

Dave -Absolutely awesome. Thanks. Seems there are a couple of companies that have the model instock.
Dick - Good to know that the modern versions are no use at all for my purposes. You seem to have a wealth of knowledge about the three, can you give me any pointers on what changes I should be looking for, or where I can find a list of modifications?
Paul - Thanks for mentioning the lack of detail. The less work I have to do with my poor knowledge of the class the better. The scale doesn't really matter, as far as I'm aware.

Where are you guys sourcing your knowledge from? If it's online, I can attempt to google it, if it's from books, could you pass on the ISBN / details please?

I think I'll have to get a few more details from the gent I'm gonna be building this for - see if he will appreciate the differences between the Illustrious and the Formidable... If not, (some) problems solved! While I appreciate perfect accuracy, my sense of pragmatism holds sway =)

Cheers for your help guys!

[Dick J]

can you give me any pointers on what changes I should be looking for, or where I can find a list of modifications?

As built, the ships had significant "round-downs" at the ends of the flightdeck. It was necessary to reduce turbulance since minor airflow problems created issues for the lightweight biplanes they were flying at the start of the war. However, as the planes got heavier and the airgroups larger, more and more of the round-down area was built up to flatten the deck, extending the level part of it for both longer takeoff runs and more deck parking. Also, as with most ships of the time, the light AA was significantly increased, as were the electronics. In addition, there were variations in the placement and configuration of the mast at the after end of the island. Good information sources include Friedman's "British Carrier Aviation" and a pair of the old, long out-of-print "Warship Profiles" series books. Otherwise, you must pick out the bits and pieces from Jane's Fighting Ships and many other "general ship" sources.

[PaulC]

Here's a site dedicated to Formidable:
http://www.hmsformidable.com/Formy_Home.htm

It has quite a few pictures. I found a nice port side view there showing her in disruptive camo:



However for late 1944 to 1945, she was in overall light grey (G-45?) with the blue "belt" along the hull (B-20?) (I stand to be corrected if I got the specific colours wrong!)



Paul

[Gernot]

Any detailed info sources on British carriers always appreciated, thanks for the Formidable website link. As for the photo above, "Rabaul" in 1944?!? That sounds a bit fishy, I though New Britain was under siege but still firmly in Japanese hands at the time...

[Hugh Williams]

Any detailed info sources on British carriers always appreciated, thanks for the Formidable website link. As for the photo above, "Rabaul" in 1944?!? That sounds a bit fishy, I though New Britain was under siege but still firmly in Japanese hands at the time...

Hi,

Indeed that Rabaul caption is very fishy.....An entry in the naval-history.net has her as at Gibraltar, taken in hand for major refit:

October Taken in hand for refit at Gibraltar with extensive machinery repair carried out.

It was only in Feb 1945 that she was operational, taking passage to Join the U.S. 5th Fleet, in March 1945, we see her joining the British Pacific Fleet.

Regards,

Hugh Williams

[Dick J]

As for the photo above, "Rabaul" in 1944?!? That sounds a bit fishy, I though New Britain was under siege but still firmly in Japanese hands at the time...

Unless I am mistaken, only part of New Britain was taken by the allies, and Rabaul was not part of that area. It was allowed to "wither on the vine" until the end of the war, cut off from all resupply.

[MartinJQuinn]

Moved this to the CASF Aircraft Carrier forum, and changed the name to reflect that move.

[PaulC]

Formidable was used as a troop tranpsort after the war and made some trips back and forth to the UK. If it is her and it is Rabaul, then in could be October 1945 instead of 44. My speculation...

[Graham Boak]

You will find it much easier to model an early-war ship from the Aosima 1/700 kit, and I believe the same is true of the Heller kit. Both kits are quite old and crude, but replacement parts can be obtained from White Ensign Models to improve them. You may not wish/need to go that far.

HP Models in Germany have announced new resin 1/700 models of Illustrious and Victorious, so Formidable must be expected soon. However this kit is much more expensive and will probably require more skill than the injected plastic kits.

[DennisJP]

As for the photo above, "Rabaul" in 1944?!? That sounds a bit fishy, I though New Britain was under siege but still firmly in Japanese hands at the time...

Unless I am mistaken, only part of New Britain was taken by the allies, and Rabaul was not part of that area. It was allowed to "wither on the vine" until the end of the war, cut off from all resupply.

Looks tropical so it is probably Manus Island, Admiralty Islands

[Guest]

HP do a resin Illustrious Class complete with 12 aircraft but I have not seen any other models despite extensive searching in 1/700.

[Chatfield]

Where can I get plans of ILLUSTRIOUS and INDOMITABLE. I am particularly interested in the layout of the recesses in the side for boats, etc. There is a small plan for Illustrious in BRITISH CARRIER AVIATION by Friedman but nothing that I can find for Indomitable and they seem to be different.

[Chatfield]

Have now got
a) Anatomy of the ship: Victorious - which helps with general class layout.
b) Have flight deck plan of Indomitable from Steel Navy drawn by Alan Raven
c) Have several photographs good enough to see general layout of Indomitable from both sides.
d) Have offer of ships plans from NMM for Formidable and Indomitable but at over �100 it seems a bit over my budget.

Have got both models from Aoshima
Illustrious 1940 and Victorious 1941.
They are identical except that Victorious has an extra spruce which adds a small gallery of 20mm AA guns on either side of the flight deck aft and a further gallery of 5 x 20mm guns on the starboard side of the island. This would represent her in 1942 just prior to her going to America for a refit before sailing to the South Pacific in 1943.

[Graham Boak]

Some years ago, a modeller did a conversion for IPMS UK magazine, using the Aosima Victorious kit but putting her into 1945 modification state. This was based on the information in the Anatomy, which I see you have, but may give you some idea of the work (considerable) required. I can let you have a copy if you wish.

Indomitable had different lifts to the earlier three ships, and different deck markings, so don't rely too much upon the deck plan.

[Cliffy B]

Hey guys, found this posted on another forum I frequent. A color documentary shot aboard HMS Victorious in the Med circa late 1950's. Its 30 minutes long and split into two parts. Great footage of Sea Venoms, Scimitars, Whirlwinds and AEW Skyraiders during flight ops. There's also and UNREP with an AO and shots of the escorting cans

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJFbSB5P ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opyVMVsL ... re=related

Are the crew really wearing what appear to be standard issue sandals?

[Chatfield]

Some years ago, a modeller did a conversion for IPMS UK magazine, using the Aosima Victorious kit but putting her into 1945 modification state. This was based on the information in the Anatomy, which I see you have, but may give you some idea of the work (considerable) required. I can let you have a copy if you wish.

Indomitable had different lifts to the earlier three ships, and different deck markings, so don't rely too much upon the deck plan.

Yez please that would be great. I have found various plans for Indomitable over at Steel Navy which shows the different position and size of the elevators