Calling all Gerald R. Ford-class CVN fans

[navydavesof]

This one might be an excellent candidate for input from Seasick! At this point in the technological development (and especially since no expense will be spared) will there still be Mk95 illuminators used for the ESSM, or will it all be controlled by SPY-5? I have heard that SPY-5 is probably going to be able to control ESSMs, but my question is, do we have reason to believe it won't be able to?

I understand that they are trying to put SPY-5 on DDG-1000, but do you think that development of SPY-5 will proceed like it is supposed to, or might it suffer the same set backs as the Ford's EM catapults?

[USS California BB44]

Does anyone know why USN carrier island have been migrating back on the flight deck as the classes go? Ths Lexingtons had an island almost forward on the ship, but it has constantly been migrating backwards ever since.

[navydavesof]

Does anyone know why USN carrier island have been migrating back on the flight deck as the classes go?

No, sir. I am willing to postuate it is strictly a practicality purpose. The further back the Ford's island is the more out of the way it is. I can hardly wait to make a scratch-build of the Ford's island structure and mast. That is going to be cool :censored: I am thinking about a CVN-81 USS Enterprise. Any thoughts?

[USS California BB44]

Not a bad idea at all, I personally will wait until a kit comes along in plastic.

[pocketpencil]

The aft island also leaves more space for spotting aircraft forward.

[Not_so_COB]

Not sure where the info about the EMAL not working comes from...Just found this...

US Navy says electric jet-flinger tech looking good - Dated 2010.09.27

I do like this point though...

CVN 78, aka USS Gerald R Ford, is the next US Navy supercarrier, now under construction. It's very important to the USN that EMALS works, as it is acknowledged that it's now too late to change the Ford's design and fit her with steam catapults like all other US (and French) carriers. If for some reason EMALS isn't a success, the US will have bought the biggest and most expensive helicopter carrier ever.

[Russ2146]

Northrop Grumman Contracted To Continue Design Of CVN 78

by Staff Writers
Newport News VA (SPX) Nov 11, 2010
Northrop Grumman has been awarded a $189.2 million cost plus fixed-fee contract modification from the U.S. Navy to continue the engineering and design effort for the nation's newest nuclear-powered aircraft carrier, USS Gerald R. Ford (CVN 78).

The company's Shipbuilding sector in Newport News, Va. is the prime contractor. This planned contract modification funds additional design, planning and system integration activities and analysis to support CVN 78 construction.

"This planned contract modification is essential to continuing the ship design to support construction," said Mike Shawcross, vice president, Gerald R. Ford-class engineering and CVN 79 construction.

"Now that the design is in the three-dimensional product model, our engineering and planning effort is focused on the production of instructions for the shops and ship assembly."

Enhancements incorporated into the design include flight deck changes, improved weapons handling systems, and a redesigned island, all resulting in increased aircraft sortie rates.

It will also include new nuclear power plants; increased electrical power generation capacity; allowance for future technologies; and reduced workload for the sailors, translating to a smaller crew size and reduced operating costs for the Navy.

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Northro ... 8_999.html

[Not_so_COB]

It Works!

Emals launched it's first plane!

The official performance results aren�t available yet, but General Atomics confirmed this afternoon that it�s next-gen aircraft carrier launch system successfully launched an F/A-18E Super Hornet on Saturday, not with steam but with its new electromagnetic aircraft launch system, or EMALS. Rather than charging up a steam catapult to hurl aircraft down a flight deck and into the air, EMALS is supposed to enable future carriers to launch a wider variety of aircraft more rapidly from their decks using electromagnetic force.

[navydavesof]

It Works!

Emals launched it's first plane!

The official performance results aren�t available yet, but General Atomics confirmed this afternoon that it�s next-gen aircraft carrier launch system successfully launched an F/A-18E Super Hornet on Saturday, not with steam but with its new electromagnetic aircraft launch system, or EMALS. Rather than charging up a steam catapult to hurl aircraft down a flight deck and into the air, EMALS is supposed to enable future carriers to launch a wider variety of aircraft more rapidly from their decks using electromagnetic force.

I am just saying, there seems to be something horribly wrong here. Shouldn't the statement "it works!" have been made a decade before we actually put it on a ship as expensive as an aircraft carrier? Why are we designing untested technology into a $10Billion ship before we even know it works?

This is called "techno jumping" and requires huge assumptions. The first law of success and common sense is: "don't assume". This EMALS thing is a perfect example. What happened if it did not work? That quote would have been "Construction of the Ford has halted as they try to redesign it to accept steam catapult gear. Rebuild time is estimated at an additional 14 months." the United States Navy is going to have to accept only eight operating nuclear powered aircraft carriers until this problem can be solved."

Why do we put our selves onto these positions?

[Atma]

USS Richard Milhous Nixon
USS Ulysses S. Grant

[Sr. Gopher]

Maybe not the best idea to put Nixon up there, considering Watergate and the resigning, it would almost be an insult to the Navy.

[carr]

It Works! Emals launched it's first plane!

Of course, the article goes on to say,

"Of course, a battle-ready technology does not a handful of test launches make. EMALS maker General Atomics and the engineer�s at the Naval Air Engineering Station in Lakehurst, N.J., where the tests were conducted, still have a lot of proving to do if they are going to deliver their electromagnetic slingshot on time. If they can�t, the U.S.S. Ford will get reliable, very last-century steam catapults instead, spelling costly re-designs and likely a year or more in delays."

NLOS (now cancelled) had occasional test successes. The LCS UUV's (now cancelled or severely delayed) had test successes. The entire LCS ASW module (now cancelled) had test successes. You get the point. As the article states, one carefully controlled test does not prove the system is ready.

I hope it does pan out, and quickly, otherwise we'll be down another carrier for a year or two while they either redesign to accomodate the steam cats or play around with the EMALS trying to make it work.

Regards,
Bob

[Timmy C]

This is called "techno jumping" and requires huge assumptions. The first law of success and common sense is: "don't assume". This EMALS thing is a perfect example. What happened if it did not work? That quote would have been "Construction of the Ford has halted as they try to redesign it to accept steam catapult gear. Rebuild time is estimated at an additional 14 months." the United States Navy is going to have to accept only eight operating nuclear powered aircraft carriers until this problem can be solved."

Why do we put our selves onto these positions?

What if the turbines for HMS Dreadnought were delayed? Oh the f*** noes! Sometimes, you just got to suck it up and go with it.

Besides, it's not like EM-related propulsion is a new thing - MAGLEV trains, linear-induction motors, etc. all use the same basic principles and have been around for decades. The only thing new here is, as far as I can see, a much more significant acceleration.

[navydavesof]

this is yet another reason why we need to reactivate 2 battleships immediately. They are proven capital ships that can fill the capital-ship void of our shrinking CVN fleet.

[navydavesof]

...Sometimes, you just got to suck it up and go with it.

...all use the same basic principles and have been around for decades. The only thing new here is, as far as I can see, a much more significant acceleration.

*sigh*...

Timmy....timmy, timmy, timmy. Jimmy, Jimmy. Jimmy....Jimmy, Jimmy. Timmy, Timmy, Timmytimmytimmytimmy. Jimmy....Jimmyjimmy. OoooooLibolah Timaaaaa!

[carr]

There's nothing wrong with developing new technologies. Hey, sooner or later you have to if you want to move forward. The key, though, is to make sure that your experimental efforts are for a ship that is not vital to your country's immediate defense needs. By all means, build a prototype ship and play with new tech but for goodness sake don't play "Wheel of Technology" with a ship that is expected to step into the first line of defense from day one. That's how you wind up with an LCS that's only suited for Coast Guard duties!

[Timmy C]

Thanks Bob, for having the courtesy to give an actual reply...

But what kind of vessel would you build to test a catapult that would not be used for actual flight operations at a later time?

Unless you were to build another carrier alongside or just before the Ford, I don't see how you could gradually implement the EMALS. And naturally, building another carrier is not exactly fiscally possible.

[navydavesof]

Thanks Bob, for having the courtesy to give an actual reply...

But what kind of vessel would you build to test a catapult that would not be used for actual flight operations at a later time? Unless you were to build another carrier alongside or just before the Ford, I don't see how you could gradually implement the EMALS. And naturally, building another carrier is not exactly fiscally possible.

Well, Timmy, you put it on a land installation first. You do NOT put it on an actaual front-line aircraft carrier for experimentation. I would suggest that it be installed at NOB where aircraft practice take offs and landings all the time. There it can be tested every week if not every day for months so it can be proven. Putting prototype technology on a mainline warship, especially something that is as critical as 1 our of 9 aircraft carriers (1/9th of the entire US Navy's real power projection capability) is not very wise at all. Just like the Mk71, the technology needs to be 100% proven on the ground at land based facilities before anyone considers it being put onto a ship. Putting an unproven technology on a ship as important as an aircraft carrier is negligent.

[Timmy C]

Hey. HEY. Where do you think they're testing the thing now? In another dimension? They ARE testing it on land right now!

The issue here isn't about installing it on the carrier untested - that would be preposterous. No one's saying anything about putting it on Ford for experimenting. The problem that you're going on about is the undesirable alternative in the event that the EMALS does not pass all its ground tests - the delay of the carrier's completion.

So to prevent the delay of the carrier's completion, what would you have done? Start development of EMALS years earlier? Design Ford to carry both EMALS and steam cats in the event of the former's failure? Actually, neither of those would be terrible ideas, just perhaps more costly and would have been ahead of their time.

[carr]

Of course it has to be tested on land. The problem is we're out of sequence. The land testing should have been on-going for months/years before committing to an actual ship design. Run 10,000 land cat shots and find out what problems are in it (and there are problems in any new technology) and solve those problems. Then, and only then, make plans to put it in the next carrier to be designed and built.

As it is now, the Ford will be a beta test for the technology. Even optimistically, they'll probably be saddled with recurring cat problems for the first few years while they identify the bugs and work out solutions. More realistically, this carrier will probably experience lots of cat down time. Again, not what you want out of a first line of defense.

I have no doubt that it will eventually work and work well. In the meantime, though, we may well have a part time carrier, at best.

On a related note, consider the last several ships developed by the Navy. The LCS is essentially non-functional, the DDG-1000 is dead-on-arrival, the San Antonio class is struggling mightily to overcome problems. Why would we expect that the EMALS will insert smoothly into the Ford and work perfectly?

For some unfathomable reason, the Navy is placing a lot of hope in unproven/non-existent technologies throughout all its new platforms. Unfortunately, "hope" is a poor design criteria.

I would love to come back to this thread in a year or so and admit I was wrong and all worked up about nothing, however, the history of technological development strongly suggests otherwise. It will be interesting to watch as this carrier moves forward.