The Ship Model Forum

Thank you. Congratulations for your deep knowledge!

Max

Hey guys, do any of you know if any of the Clevelands suffered any torpedo damage during the war; specifically from a submarine torpedo? I'm working on a little whiff scenario of a Fargo eating a U-boat torpedo and wanted to look at some real life battle damage if possible. I know the hulls were practically identical, at least when it comes to armor, but were they any main structural differences? How good was their torpedo protection? I want to portray the damage as realistic as possible so any and all info will be appreciated as always.

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Birmingham ate one torpedo, as did Denver. Houston was hit by two. I would have to double check, but I think they were all air dropped.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/062/0406205.jpg

Well, the question then is this: Is there any difference in the impact of a sub and air-dropped torpedo?

This might help: http://www.combinedfleet.com/torps.htm

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Current builds:
Hobby Boss 1/700 Type VIIC U-Boat for my AH

Planned builds:
3 more 1/700 AH submarines

There are several pictures of torpedo damage to the USS Houston here:

http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/081/04081.htm

Tracy White has posted a very good description of the torpedo damage here:

http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... epair.html

How good was the Cleveland/Fargo torpedo protection? Well, none were sunk, and the Houston certainly took as much punishment as some of the pre-war treaty cruisers that went to the bottom. But Houston was lucky - there were no Japanese ships around pumping bullets into the damaged ship (but one torpedo plane got through). The same is true for the other torpedoed Clevelands.

The armor belts were primarily there to protect against gunfire, and were pretty much useless against torpedoes, as the Houston photos show. The torpedo hit below the armor. The main protection was double and triple hulls and good damage control measures. Effective damage control saved the Houston.

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

The first thing pumped into your head at DC school is "It's your ship, it's up to you to know her and save her."

In the case of the Houston, she took a torpedo in the hangar and in one of her main spaces (engine rooms), which were the two areas of the ship that simultaneous flooding in would most likely result in the loss of the ship. The case of the USS Reno was another example of aerial torpedoes doing their worst in the fantail, and the collision between USS Washington and USS Indiana almost resulted in the loss of both ships. The Washington was saved from catastrophic main deck collapse by her own anchor chains, and Indiana was saved by rapid counterflooding and a critical bulkhead being damaged but holding up. If you're interested in knowing what it took to save the USS Houston when everyone except her own crew had written her off ("Bait Division One" was created just for her and Canberra), I recommend this book:

The Battle to Save the Houston: October 1944 to March 1945, by John Grider Miller. ISBN 1-55750-540-3.

moonboy242,

Thanks for the reference.

I'm pretty sure most people who have never served on ships do not realize just how important damage control is and how much training is spent on damage control. I had engine room, mess deck, flight deck and mezzanine deck firefighting schools, the USS Buttercup (flooding), and nuclear weapons/explosives accident training, all in my first year in the Navy!

If you have never been there you can't possibly imagine all of the impossible things you learn to do in those schools. When the Damage Control Chief tells you to crawl into a totally black engine room filled with choking smoke three levels above a burning pool of oil, crawl over catwalks while dragging a charged fire hose finding your way by feel because you can't see anything, climb down ladders over the flames and put out the burning oil with water, you think he is crazy! But you do it, it works, and damned if he didn't know what he was talking about! Then you cough up soot for a week!

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Thanks for the info guys! It was just what I needed

I was searching the net for other info I came across a website devoted to the USS Astoria (CL-90). Its FULL of high-res photos and even several COLOR films of the ship and her consorts during the war. A treasure trove of info and media for sure! Apparently they are from the official ship's photographer.

http://mighty90.com/Home_Page.php

Enjoy!

-Mike

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Drawing Board:
1/700 Whiff USS Leyte and escorts 1984
1/700 Whiff USN Modernized CAs 1984
1/700 Whiff ASW Showdown - FFs vs SSGN 1984

Slipway:
1/700 Whiff USN ASW Hunter Killer Group Dio 1984

Nice find Cliffy.

You could have found it on page 5 of this topic

I have a side-by-side of my Midships 1/700 Cleveland and Miami:

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║ Seasick║
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Turrets #1 and #4 are reversed on the Cleveland. It had rangefinders on #1 and no rangefinders on #4.

It looks like your Miami has rangefinders on all four turrets. NONE of the Clevelands ever had rangefinders on #4.

This isn't a big secret, so how come all of the model companies are too stupid to get it right?

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Hello all!

While doing some research for one of my current 1/96th Builds, I was lucky enough to stumble across this website and the many talented and informative modelers working here!
WOW what a fortunate discovery!
I was even more shocked to see at least a few folks working in 1/96th ! I am looking forward to participating in and learning from these discussions and sharing my build progress ( slower then pond water ) here on the board.

Currently Building USS Denver CL58, USS Thorn DD 647 in 1/96th

Paul

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USS Thorn DD 647
USS Denver CL 58

"It follows than as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious."

George Washington, 1781

Paul,

Where are you in Oregon?

Phil

USS Oklahoma City CL-91, CLG-5, CG-5
www.okieboat.com

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

Phil,
Thanks for writting! I have been watching your progress at the Okieboat website as well as other folks work on this site and Im very happy to hear that I have such an accomplished modeler this close by
I am at
N 44.050007 W 123.352418
OR about 47 Miles and South and slightly Westerly of your location.
OR about about 8 miles West of the Peoples Republic of Eugene headed towards the coast in a tiny Oregon town called Veneta.
I sure hope you decide to R/C your Cruiser, it would be phenominal to have a sailing buddy besides the geese some day Most folks around here want to fly though the water at 40 kts with mini gas powered Hydroplanes, not really the same thing Im trying to accomplish
Now for the really weird part, one of the very first USN ships I was ever aboard as a kid
( 1973 I think ) was the USS Oklahoma City when I was a cub scout. The Hancock had just come back to the world at Alameda NAS and the OKC and another cold war era CG, I think it was the Columbus was in with her.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Paul

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USS Thorn DD 647
USS Denver CL 58

"It follows than as certain as that night succeeds the day, that without a decisive naval force we can do nothing definitive, and with it, everything honorable and glorious."

George Washington, 1781

Can any of the square bridge Clevelands be built from the Miami kit?

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

Like all sisters, there were a bunch of detail differences, and changes over time. The Miami kit should be a good starting point for all of the "square bridge" sisters. However, there will need to be relatively minor changes for most of them to keep them accurate.

Thanks Dick.

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Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery

To: DrPR,

I know this isn't in regards to the modeling questions in the above topics but I have been searching for a site that can show me what CL101 Amsterdam, ship Patch looks like so I can build a shadow box for my Grandfather. I saw your Ship patch under your name and hoped you may have some insight.

Regards,

SFC P.

Since she was launched in 1944 and decommissioned in 1947, is it possible she didn't have one?

I don't think all ships of that era had one.

If you go here http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/artt ... -usnsh.htm, you note that most patches date to the '50's and '60's.