1/350 Tamiya Tone (Backdated to 1939)

[chuck]

On the picture taken over the lower portwing in Gekkan 47 that you enlarged, I interpret the white line edging the top of the diagonal portion of aft bulkhead to be a rolled up canvas cover for an aperture. In the same photo, I see no evidence of any solid wall on the visible diagonal part of the aft bulkhead. So it seems to me that photo shows whatever aperture is on the aft bulkhead, it covers at least the entire diagonal part of the bulkhead on the portside. This is consistent with Tamiya depiction of this portion of the bulkhead.

One the front page photo of Chikuma and Soryu, you can also see the transverse portion of the aft bulkhead around the aircraft ramp. Here I think it looks very much like that opening extends right across the transverse portion and onto the other diagonal portion on the other side of the ship. There does seem to be something in the opening on the left side where the transverse portion meets the diagonal portion. But comparing that thing with what's on the aft deck suggest that thing is a crewman standing there, not a solid portion of the bulkhead.

So I am not sure where you see evidence of any solid portion to that bulkhead except quite far outboard.

[ussvf17]

First of all, let me say I don't know for sure what it was really going on in the area. I simply do not have the necessary photo prove. Yet, I believe Tamiya's interpretation is more likely to be correct because of the following reasons:

1) The area in the red circle in picture 1 was an open space. I couldn't think of a reason for them to had a solid bulkhead or roller door to close off the area. If the designer was concern about weather, they wouldn't left the side wide open. Myoko and Mogami class CA had the solid bulkhead in the area because they did not have an open space like the Tone class.

2) I believe we all agree perforated beams were there across the whole area. I reviewed designs of other IJN ships where perforated beams were used. I did not see in any case where perforated beams were used above solid bulkhead or roller door. They were reinforce beams above open spaces. The hanger in Takao class CA was similar in design with what Tamiya had in mind.

I enjoy this discussion a lot as we all are passionate the ships

[J. Soca]

I've had a great time reading all your comments and as of now my veredict is the bulkhead will stay open, nevertheless another question has arisen linoleum or not linoleum within this open section?? we all know linoleum was a bit of a fire hazard so my guess is there was no linoleum within the torpedo bay but if there were two separete rooms say lockers and a bulkhead did divide lockers from torpedoe bay will these have linoleum too?? what a way in opening a can of sardines


almost done with the bridge:

Jose

[Dan K]

The open hangar bays of the Takaos were eliminated with their rebuilds. The rearmost side aperture was often covered with a tarp, as it was in all classes.

I'm going to touch base with Japan to see if they can clarify this point.

[J. Soca]

I'm going to touch base with Japan to see if they can clarify this point.

Looking forward to that answer Dan, thanks


Jose

[chuck]

I've had a great time reading all your comments and as of now my veredict is the bulkhead will stay open, nevertheless another question has arisen linoleum or not linoleum within this open section?? we all know linoleum was a bit of a fire hazard so my guess is there was no linoleum within the torpedo bay but if there were two separete rooms say lockers and a bulkhead did divide lockers from torpedoe bay will these have linoleum too?? what a way in opening a can of sardines

Can of worms?

My guess is linolium in most of the torpedo deck, but with steel patches with tread plates around the torpedo mounts and their reloads.

As to fire in torpedo bay, it seems to me a greater threat comes from a gas filled airplane parked on the aft deck getting blown up through battle damage and the flaming aviation gas pouring into the torpedo deck through the open rear bulkhead.

Is there any assessment of just how much the torpedo explosion contributed to Mikuma's sinking? Without other battle damage, would she have been navigable after the torpedo explosion?

[Dan K]

I would agree with Chuck's linoleum layout.

Regrettably, Contact A in Japan has no additional information on this point. On to the next.

[sirpaul]

I've had a great time reading all your comments and as of now my veredict is the bulkhead will stay open, nevertheless another question has arisen linoleum or not linoleum within this open section?? we all know linoleum was a bit of a fire hazard so my guess is there was no linoleum within the torpedo bay but if there were two separete rooms say lockers and a bulkhead did divide lockers from torpedoe bay will these have linoleum too?? what a way in opening a can of sardines [\quote]

Can of worms?

My guess is linolium in most of the torpedo deck, but with steel patches with tread plates around the torpedo mounts and their reloads.

As to fire in torpedo bay, it seems to me a greater threat comes from a gas filled airplane parked on the aft deck getting blown up through battle damage and the flaming aviation gas pouring into the torpedo deck through the open rear bulkhead.

Is there any assessment of just how much the torpedo explosion contributed to Mikuma's sinking? Without other battle damage, would she have been navigable after the torpedo explosion?

The torpedoes going off sealed her fate. she only took 4 500lbs hits at Midway. but she also had a colision with mogami while trying to escape. The torpedoes going off destroyed the entire midsectionof the ship.

[johndon]

Great work so far Jose

John

[Guido]

Nice going there, Jose! I am watching from afar!
Is it just me or the perspective, or is the rangefinder assembly not aligned properly?
DSC-9.jpg looks like it, while the rest are looking good! Maybe it's not attached, yet!?
Keep up the great work!
Guido

PS.: Next I would want you to built something... something ... European maybe?

[ussvf17]

I have a correction to make. The area I have been referring to as the "open area" (area I circled in red in my post above) was actually not an open area. It was where the electric winch was located. I believe the winch was there to move torpedo so I don't think it helped us to determined if the area was enclosed.

I

[J. Soca]

I want to thank you all for your comments, it should be can of worms Chuck but hey i believe our obsession is more with sailing vessels than anything that dwells on land hence i used sardines i think a can of rotten sardines sounds better hehe.

Guido you are right about the range finder i looked at the piece and is not straight but im afraid it will have to stay as it is because its already in place and i don't want to touch it in case i screw something up, i've relived this story plenty of times before in which i end up fixing more stuff than a simple little thing. hhmm i'm thinking about Dreadnaught Guido..


Thats a winch for sure on #21, translating these sections will be a great help too.


i completed and painted the turrets today even though i painted the canvas flat white i think i might change it to the sand color i used on the bridge canvas..

[Guido]

hhmm i'm thinking about Dreadnaught Guido...

Good one!


Cheers,
Guido

[Dan K]

The torpedo reload bay was located betwen the two torpedo stations, not aft of the second. That bay was probably used for loading supplies and/or munitions.

[chuck]

There has got to be some powerful electric winch located around that area to haul a fully load aircraft torlley up that 30 degree ramp. What an odd design. It would make so much more sense to raise the quarterdeck by one deck level and make the whole aircraft handling area flat.

[chuck]

The torpedoes going off sealed her fate. she only took 4 500lbs hits at Midway. but she also had a colision with mogami while trying to escape. The torpedoes going off destroyed the entire midsectionof the ship.

Well, the funnel uptake for the aft boiler room might have been wiped out, but were the engine room under the armor deck damaged by the torpedo blast as well? In anycase, the ship was holed by the bombs, but the torpedo explosion does not seem to have further reduced her watertight integrity. In any case she remained afloat for a long time afterwards. So although spectacular, I am wonder just how fatal were the torpedo damage? Had the ship not been holed by the bombs, could she have remained afloat and perhaps even navigated under her own power?

[sirpaul]

The torpedoes going off sealed her fate. she only took 4 500lbs hits at Midway. but she also had a colision with mogami while trying to escape. The torpedoes going off destroyed the entire midsectionof the ship.

Well, the funnel uptake for the aft boiler room might have been wiped out, but were the engine room under the armor deck damaged by the torpedo blast as well? In anycase, the ship was holed by the bombs, but the torpedo explosion does not seem to have further reduced her watertight integrity. In any case she remained afloat for a long time afterwards. So although spectacular, I am wonder just how fatal were the torpedo damage? Had the ship not been holed by the bombs, could she have remained afloat and perhaps even navigated under her own power?

I doubt it. you must remember she was with the entire Japanese fleet. They would have towed her. The Nagato floated after 1 atomic bomb and sank a day after the second. she also could not have been saved. I am pretty sure the Mikuma's internal damage was far worse than the exterior damage. The long lance torpedoes carry a 1000+lbs warhead. A hole room of these going of would fatal no matter what ship you are on.

[chuck]

Actually, she was not with the rest of the Japanese fleet. She and her three sisters of cruiser division 7 were ordered to detach from combined fleet and make a independent high speed dash to Midway island on June 5 as part of Yamamoto's efforts to salvage the situation and trap the US fleet into a night surface battle. It was during this run when she misread a squadron maneuver order and collided with Mogami. At the time of the collision she was at least 200 NM from the combined fleet, and Yamamoto had already given up on the night battle idea and ordered combined fleet to retire to the west.

After the collision, Mogami was judged seriously damaged, while Mikuma was judged to be only lightly damaged, so Mikuma was ordered to remain behind to assist Mogami while the rest of cruiser div 7 sped after the combined fleet.

It was while escorting the more seriously damaged Mogami that Mikuma was bombed and her torpedoes detonated. The bomb damage was serious, as it stopped Mikuma in her tracks. So it seem likely the bombs penetrated the armored deck and possibly holed the ship's bottom.

Japanese cruisers were designed to survive as best as possible a torpedo detonation. I am trying to see just how well Mikuma did survive.

[chuck]

i completed and painted the turrets today even though i painted the canvas flat white i think i might change it to the sand color i used on the bridge canvas..

DSC_0001.jpg

DSC_0002.jpg

Jost a note, Jose. The barrel of the turret on the right looks like it protrudes from the blast bag at too low an angle. This makes the barrel looks as if it bends down a little at the location where it exists the blast bag, it should look like to comes stright out. So the top of the barrel should form a straight line with the part of the top of the blast bag that rests directly on the barrel.

[J. Soca]

Jost a note, Jose. The barrel of the turret on the right looks like it protrudes from the blast bag at too low an angle. This makes the barrel looks as if it bends down a little at the location where it exists the blast bag, it should look like to comes stright out. So the top of the barrel should form a straight line with the part of the top of the blast bag that rests directly on the barrel.

I'll have to sand those blast bags a bit to get those suckers straight up. I think this was the last turret and frankly i have always found attaching barrels most agravating!! so i rushed at the end and didn't even pay close attention. Nevertheless i will change the canvas color i checked some of Dan's models and i like how they look with this sand-yellowish color.


Jose