The Ship Model Forum

Initially Yorktown had five masts.
Photos on NavSource (provided they are captioned correctly) indicate that the two after radio masts and one forward mast were removed in 1944. Then in 1944, three whip antennae were installed aft also.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/10.htm

From researching photos online, I have found that the Steel Navy Essex guide for the Lexington has some incorrect information http://www.steelnavy.com/essex_data.htm#CV-16 USS Lexington

copied from the SN site for conversation convenience:
Quad 40mm Gun Locations
Location/ Date Added (Number of Mounts)
Bow/ March 1943 - July 1952 (1)
Stern/ March 1943 - July 1952 (2)
Island/ March 1943 - May 1945 (4)
Island/ May 1945 - July 1952 (3)
Port Sponson/ March 1943 - July 1952 (2)
Port Flight Deck FWD/ March 1943 - July 1952 (1)
Port Flight Deck MID/ May 1945 - July 1952 (2)
Starboard MID/ May 1945 - July 1952 (3)
Starboard Aft/ March 1943 - July 1952 (2)

The Lexington initially had 1 stern quad 40mm (not 2). The second one was added sometime before 1945 (not sure when). Do you think it was mid-1944 while in re-fit?
I also think that the 2 port and 3 starboard mid-deck quads were added in late 1943 not May 1945.

regards Randy Riley

Awesome! Much appreciated!

No, second stern 40mm quad was added during her second WW2 refit (March-May 1945).



Yes, they were added during first WW2 (post-torpedoing) refit (early 1944).

Help it helps.

yes - helps alot. Trying to clear up all the little details of her history to build an accurate version.
So I am seeing 16 quad 40mm mounts total in late 1944.

It should be 17 40mm mounts. CV-16 did not have second stern 40mm quad, but still had early island with 4 40mm quads at that time.

So this is what it should look like:



Total 17

Researching the Air Group for CV-16 Lexington in October 1944. I used Tracey's source to find this:
http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww ... -10-44.pdf

With this, I am proposing the following marking details for the aircraft:

Group Count Model Colors (my best guess as to how to paint and mark)
VF-19 1 F6F-5 CAG Dark Blue overall, White Insignia & White Lettering, White stripe on rudder
VF-19 14 F6F-3 Two-tone Blue, Gray Underside, Blue/White Insignia & White Lettering
VF-19 2 F6F-3N (w/Radar) Dark Blue overall, White Insignia & Lettering
VF-19 1 F6F-3P (Photo) ?
VF-19 21 F6F-5 Dark Blue, White Insignia & White Lettering
VF-19 1 F6F-5N (w/Radar) Dark Blue overall, White Insignia & White Lettering, 2-20mm cannon
VF-19 1 F6F-5P (Photo) ?

VB-19 30 SB2C-3 ?

VT-19 18 TBM-1C ?

Depict Hellcats with drop tanks. Black props w/yellow tips. Stretched sprue antenna (vertical)
38 Hellcats regular, 2 night-fighters w/no cannon, 1 night-fighter w/cannon: Total 41

On Avenger’s do black wing walk bars. Antennae stretched sprue .50 cal in turret. Black props w/yellow tips. Use triangle decals (in Pontos set) for rudder.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts on this.
Randy Riley

P.S. I have a book resource "Blue Devils" which indicates that some older Hellcats were indeed still in the three-color paint scheme I'm proposing above.

If it's a -3 Hellcat, do it in tri-color. Ships did not repaint entire aircraft, just touch-ups and insignia changes. the -3Ns might be a little different, but I haven't found anything definitive yet.

The SteelNavy Essex data is an OK start but rife with errors. Offers to Steve Baker to help update have been ignored, but he'll sure as hell contact me when he wants something for one of his books. ::grumbles::

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

This photo was taken in October 1944:



Helldivers are still in the tri‑color camouflage scheme.

I have seen this photo before, but have not found a caption for it that was meaningful to know when the photo was taken.

Do you know which carrier this one was?

thanks for the help.

Randy Riley

SB2C-3s of Bombing Squadron Nineteen (VB-19) on Lexington's flight deck. I think that VT-19's Avengers were also in the same camo at that time.

Excellent. Thanks for the information. With a full suite to do, the airwing will take a bit.

I will have to source some of the A/C insignia with the two white bars.

regards
Randy Riley

Searching for aircraft marking resources, I found one which has some good photos. Trying to figure out how much truth is there... be careful.

http://www.pmcn.de/English/USN%20Markin ... s%20II.htm

I am not an expert by any stretch, but I hope to be a good resource on a late war CV-16 by the time I begin my build... Cross-checking all the information with multiple sources and going with the majority seems to be the only way to be reasonably sure.

regards Randy Riley

Air Group 94 (June 16)
VF-94
F6F-5 x 30
F6F-5N x 4
F6F-5P x 2
VBF-94
F4U-4 x 36
VB-94
SB2C-4E x 15
VT-94
TBM-3E x 15

The air group largely stays this way for the rest of the war; they lose an aircraft here or there, but never get another variant in replacement (some carriers got replacement F6F-3s when their -5s were lost - Lexington never drops "down" a version). The Corsairs, Hellcats, and Helldivers should all be Glossy Sea Blue. Not clear is the TBMs... I suspect all Glossy Sea Blue as well, but have nothing definite. I'm not sure if you've read through my Lexington Quad .50 report, but it looks like mount 6 has some GSB Avengers... I'll try and look at the high-res copy tonight.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hey Tracey

Perhaps you inadvertently confused Lexington's airgroup with another. The source above and everything I've read indicates that AVG-16, then AVG-19 were aboard the Lexington during '43 and '44. Or is this source totally inaccurate???
http://www.history.navy.mil/a-record/ww ... loc-ac.htm

Thanks Randy Riley

Ah... OK, brain fart on my part - I thought you were wanting to do summer/fall of 1945, not 1944.

VF-19 14 F6F-3 - tri-color
VF-19 2 F6F-3N (w/Radar) Not sure
VF-19 1 F6F-3P (Photo) tri-color
VF-19 1 F6F-5 - Glossy Sea Blue
VF-19 1 F6F-5N (w/Radar) Glossy Sea Blue
VF-19 1 F6F-5P (Photo) Glossy Sea Blue

VB-19 30 SB2C-3 - tri-color

VT-19 18 TBM-1C - tri-color

Fighters were orderd into GSB in March of 1944 and "all" carrier aircraft in October. The aircraft weren't repainted on the carriers - it was done at the time of manufacture or depot-level maintenance, if at all. F6F-3 production lasted until April of 1944, so there were *some* painted in Glossy Sea Blue, but the vast majority were in the tri-color scheme. So, for your airgroup, unless it's a -5 varient, paint it in tri-color.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

FYI, fellow Essex builders - www.spruebrothers.com has the Pontos Model Yorktown superset on sale for $139. Its under their specials category. I don't know how many they have left (mine came today) but given that the regular price is $200, that's a pretty good discount.

Robert

Wow! Thanks Robert.

I was planning to get one too for my upcoming build - Just ordered...

Randy

You're welcome! Hope to see your's soon. I'm currently waffling between an early Lexington or Yorktown. Decision, decisions...