The Ship Model Forum

I think I know what might have happened...

Either he has cut the hull about and realised that his mental state has been compromised due to the extensive work required, or... he has decided to wait for the Pontos set... could be a long time!!!

_________________
Regards

Nigel

There are a lot of parameters to reflect upon in taking on this huge Bismarck kit...parameters which should be ranked and individualized.
#1. To my mind, building the kit should be pleasurable, first of all. When it gets too technical or exceeds my modest model-building skills, it will not be pleasurable any more. Ergo, for me, I've elected not to attempt Nigel's masterful correction of the hull lines.

#2. What is the object? Are you trying to build the BEST Bismarck model, anywhere? Since my Bismarck will be a home display piece, for myself, I'm really not compelled to build to IPMS competition level. But, some will be entering IPMS shows.

#3. How much time do you want to invest in the build? To my mind, I might want to scratchbuild a 1/200 Prinz Eugen as a companion piece. I love Bismarck, but I don't want HER to be the last build of my ship-modeling life! I'm learning a lot from others in this Forum that should acellerate my build

#4. How much money will you sink into a single build? I've finally assembled all the materials to start my Trumpeter Bismarck build (about $600.00 USD) minus display case cost. Materials so far include Trumpeter kit, plus KA Mk. 1 DX Pack, plus about $115.00 Lifecolor Kriegsmarine Set 1 Paint.

Jason and Anton need to be wary of "sprinting" at the beginning of a Marathon! Like the tortoise and hare in Aesop's fable, "Slow and steady wins the race."
At least, I hope I'll finish! Sincerely, THE TORTOISE

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

Well, considering I started last November and still haven't glued any of the actual kit pieces together other than the bilge keels and prop shaft brackets (everything else being my own mods) I guess I can call myself a "tortoise" too!

But Bismarck building isn't a competition and I hope it doesn't look (or end up) that way. I don't think any of us are actually aiming to dominate an IPMS show (or each other) with our builds and I think it's great to see a bit of camaraderie developing around our new unofficial "MW Big Bismarck club" .

I'm enjoying my build and modifications; it feels good to share the pains and triumphs of "Bismarck madness" and it's really fun to see others do likewise. I hope you start a build log soon Wilhelm and join in on the fun too!

_________________
-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

You can't win with this kit... just about any option forces you to choose between chucking your pricy Trumpy plastic in the trash out of frustration or becoming a lonely basement troll that never sees the sun and singlehandedly keeps PE, sandpaper and xacto knife blade dealers profitable.

I'm telling y'all... it's the "Reich Effect" in action! Hitler must of had some nefarious plot that involved getting legions of model builders to obsess over every last detail of models of his "big boy toys" 70 years later.

_________________
-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

Really enjoying watching the build.. I have the kit on the shelf waiting to make a decision on aftermarket PE. I too an a sailing ship modeller with a steel navy subject thrown in here and there... Right now Im working on Hellers 1/100 HMS Victory.. I also love the CUtty Sark and sunk a small 1/192 scale EPC kit in construction grade Styrofoam.. I plan to do the same thing with this big Bismarck..

Jason: I have started my build, beginning with gluing in the bow "chin" pieces, filling the seams, and sanding down. Ho-hum so far!

I think I've found a technique for making hull weld seams. It requires three miles of "cheap" 3-M blue 3/4 inch masking tape. The longitudinal tape strips follow the keel lines and are separated by about 0.5 mm where the gray hull plastic, itself, is exposed. Then liquid cement is applied to the exposed 0.5 mm line. This causes slight bubbling of the plastic surface. When the tape is removed, you can see and feel a subtle raised line that will suffice for a 1/200 model weld seam. Vertical weld lines will be applied next. WARNING: ONLY USE THIS TOXIC TECHNIQUE OUTDOORS OR IN A WELL-VENTILATED AREA!!! It generates a ton of volatile hydrocarbon fumes. An alternative (untried) method might be to apply the old plastic model "tube glue" where weld seams are desired. Seams might be more prominent then, as tube glue contains some mixed-in polystyrene.

In looking at photos, the weld lines are nearly invisible on the fully painted Bismarck hull, so the model effect should be subtle after primer and paint are applied. Bismarck had a novel electro-welded hull (rather than the traditional fully rivetted hull). One of the touted advantages was decreased drag and increased speed of the hull in the water. The weld seams were probably smoothed down further by grinding to maximize speed yet more.

I plan to start my own build log replete with photos...but my camera battery "ist kaput" tonight! Cheers!

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

Perth_shipyard
First great build, been watching it from the start!
Quick question, what grey did you use for the top of the boot top?

After thinking about this a a bit, is this the area that could not be repainted while in the water?

_________________
"Only two sailors, in my experience, never ran aground. One never left
port and the other was an atrocious liar."
-Don Bamford

Hi guys, yes i'm still alive!!! but work has been crazy! so not much in the way of updates
The grey is actually a tamiya acrylic XF-54 dark sea grey. The colour i think fits perfectly and yep its the base of the dark bows that was left just like the black and white strips on the hull as she was still in the water. Underway at speed the boot-topping almost disappears in the waves so it wasn't of much importance. Just a note the white i used is actually a very light grey - white would be far too bright scale wise.

_________________
AT
1/72 Arleigh Burke flight iia
1/72 Hobart class AWD HMAS Brisbane
http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=154767
1/72 Friesland
1/75 Wasa
1/53 STS Leeuwin II
1/72 HMAS Perth 1942
1/72 Russian Corvette Steregushchy

Life does get in the way of our builds.. I will get the Mk1 set tommorow in the mail.. .. I will wait awhile on the paints as rigging HMS Victory is going to take the rest of this year.. I will proably do my beloved USS Nimitz first as well.. For this big Bissy I am leaning tward the time frame you have choosen.. I would like to bury the hull in constuction grade styrofoam and model a moderate sea state as on the box art.. In fact the box art is the moment in time I wish to model...The Battle of Denmark Straits. The question will be how many of her crew were on deck?? Were her single 20mm mounts on the main deck manned for a surface action?? I doubt it.. Were her 4.1 heavy AA manned? Ect.. Were her Turret tops dark gray?? Were her liferafts gray or yellow? Were her 37 mm mounts manned? So many questions... Any good 1/200 crew figures out there for her yet??? I want them at action stations not at attention waiting for that paper hanging SOB. Anyway Im really enjoying yours and the other 1/200 bissy's on the slipways.. Happy modelling good sir!

I don't KNOW, but I suspect that part of the German strategy in entering the Atlantic through the Denmark Strait was to make Prinz Eugen and Bismarck look as "Allied" with respect to paint schemes as possible. IF that is correct, even life rafts could have been colored to Anglo-American schemes, The swastikas, of course, were covered (some say with gray paint), but one Bismarck survivor claimed to have seen the obscuring canvas fall away from the swastika as she keeled over. Bismarck in the Denmark Strait gets credibly modeled both ways. PERSONALLY, I think the striped Baltic scheme is "overdone" (originally by the Germans, themselves). The subdued pre-Baltic or post-Baltic Denmark Strait schemes seem more elegant, to me.

Light deck guns were probably not manned during long range combat, as it would simply expose crew to needless danger of heavy naval artillery hits and shell splinters.

I'm modeling the Commissioning Day scheme because of simplicity...after all, true elegance never shouts. Plus, I can position all of those orderly Kriegsmarine sailors at attention WITHOUT worrying about the "paper-hanging corporal" showing up THAT day, or his hated symbol besmirching the decks of my model. Only thing I dont like about Commissioning Day is that the ship was not yet fully equipped with range finders and radars. What to do? History pulls me toward incomplete correctness...while interest in fully equipping the ship pulls me toward artistic license. BUT, I WANT BOTH!

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

Leave out the rangefinder unit on the conning tower and you can still be authentic with the early paint scheme.

_________________
-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

Just recievd my ka MK1 set in the mail... Wow! very impressive set... The decks are beautiful...the starboard aft deck piece was ever so slightly damaged in shipment. I believe It will be ok if it goes down and stays down.. the extreme end where it meets the next deck piece at the aft 5.9 in gun house is cracked. These decks are so thin and fragle that he should ship them in there own seperate envelope with a stiff card stock in it.

Jason:

Yes, I know. I think we're building the same historic Bismarck...but SHE looks sooooo NAKED without her forward rangefinder and radar screen! No way to treat a lady!

See, I'm thinking like a "civilized American" once again! It does happen!

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

What's wrong with the livery she wore after leaving Norway? If you can live with the bow waves, the dark grey painted horizontal roofs and the remainings of white and black in the boot-topping... apart from those details, this is the standard livery. On the other hand, the ship doesn't look that bad without her forward rangefinder (or without all her rangefinders), would make for a nice version, too. Standing out of the crowd of other *late-Bismarck* models. And, you wouldn't run into danger painting all the rangefinders black, as it can be seen on many models...

Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

Yes, Olaf, you are entirely correct!

I considered Commissioning Day versus the Denmark Strait scheme and am decided upon the former. Commissioning Day Bismarck did not yet bear deck swastikas, and in the Denmark Strait they were hidden (by paint or canvas). If the modeler doesn't care for swastikas, those are the two options. I like the simple, non-distracting elegance of the Hellgrau (light gray superstructure) and Mittelgrau (outboard gray hull) schemes. Crew figures were on parade on Commissioning Day, August 24, 1940. Such figures will be available from North Star Models, eventually.

The other commonly depicted Bismarck parade day, in photos, is May 5, 1941 when AH visited. His symbol was present, and the ship was sunk May 27, 1941.

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

I'll confess I was never in the Navy...I was a United States Air Force Officer (point is, my operational knowledge of things nautical is embarassingly slim).

So, here's a question for all those NAVY Sea Monkeys: In World War II naval combat, did they batten all those exterior porthole storm covers when going to "battle stations?" Seems logical to minimize shell splinter damage to the ship from enemy hits or to simply minimize glass breakage from concussive blast of the 38 cm guns firing.

So, if one models Bismarck in combat in the Denmark Strait with her main artillery elevated and trained on Hood at about 70 degrees to port, shouldn't those porthole storm covers be CLOSED?

If so, I've never seen a model or painting depicting a "sealed-up" Bismarck in action. So what should Bill Code do with his action portrayal?

Thanks to the NAVY for clarifying this point for an ignorant "USAF Fly-Boy!"

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

Well most of them are closed on the wreck so that should answer your question, Wilhelm. Even the hull portholes had shields that must swing in from the interior before closing the portholes judging by the wreck videos. Damn... I could have saved myself a lot of work!

Honestly though, all this extreme Bismarck Rivet counting on the forum is exhausting me and sucking the fun right out of my build. We need to allow each other a bit more "artistic license" on this subject, me thinks.

_________________
-Jason Channell

Current Project: 1/200 Bismarck

Jason:

Perfectionism is a CHILDISH concept! None of us are perfect! Nothing in this world is (or ever will be) perfect! BE HAPPY WITH YOUR MODEL!

The Forum brings a bunch of childish perfectionists (like me, you, and everyone else) together, where we can intentionally or unintentionally annoy each other, as we comment on historical minutiae and try to outbuild the Trumpeter TOY kit or even the next modeler in line! Fun, isn't it? Yes, it is, but it can't be taken too seriously. Bismarck went to her grave with her crew a long, long time ago. That's reality. We're all living in a present Bismarck fantasy world...kind of weird, if you think about it! DON'T take it seriously...or you'll get sick over a fantasy nothing.

I think your Bismarck is a fantastic build! But, as I warned earlier, this is not a kit to "sprint" at...it is a Marathon! Slow down to a more tolerable pace, and you'll have more fun.

By the way, please clarify: Is that little Asian figure on Dora playing a musical instrument, blowing on a pea shooter,...or smoking something to relax?

_________________
Bill

SI VIS PACEM, PARA BELLUM.

So I will have to close all those beautiful scuttles and brass work if I do her at action stations... Sigh..such a shame.. I was reading the action report on the Denmark Strait battle... It would apear that at least the heavy 4.1 AA guns were manned as there was a British Aircraft that was snooping about during the gun battle and they were shooting at it...Also appears that when POW of was at her closest they were shooting at her with the 5.9 and the 4.1 for a short while.. Lindenman want to go after her and finnish her off.. Luthgens would hear nothing of it as it wasnt in there operations orders.. POW was very lucky on that day...She was ripe for the taking with most of her heavy guns out of action as she made smoke and turned away..

She is a children's show character named Dora the Explorer (hence the pun of her being on Dora barbette), and is ostensibly Latina, not Asian.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?