Calling all Ise (伊勢) and Hyuga (日向) fans

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Btw Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki , is this small range finder(the one in the red circle) correct for a 1944/1945 IJN Ise and IJN Huyga ? Did they have it till the 1945 ? Is actually the whole 1.350 IJN Ise pagoda from Fujimi correct for a 1944/1945 IJN Ise ? --written and posted by atma

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yea, that 1,5 meter R/F is a useful and indispensable optical gear to measure distances between each ship among the fleet both at harbour and at sea. They still have it till the end, yes.

As internal info fujimi did obtain Senkan Ise/hyuga 18-Kai official ijn drawing(s),having used it for the production. However, it is a design version drawing, and several alternations have bee added to the ships in the later drawing versions which unfortunately dont exist. Fujimi used this 1st version, as it is,for the kitmodel without checking the necessary details ,tja.

But they don�t seem to care about errors& misconceptions at all, since their chief purpose is to sell as planned,well busines-minded.

At any rate this 1,5m R/F is intact, rest assured.

Your ? model of Fujimi pr posting has a very nice atmosphere, lovely.
Even though the height of sitting bar(benches) is too high, the cutter is really in good shape, there are many other major criticlal and serious errors in this fujimi product,but,I should like to spring them over now.

BR
Mutsuo.S.

[Atma]

Your ? model of Fujimi pr posting has a very nice atmosphere, lovely.
Even though the height of sitting bar(benches) is too high, the cutter is really in good shape, there are many other major criticlal and serious errors in this fujimi product,but,I should like to spring them over now.

BR
Mutsuo.S.

Not thats not my model of IJN Ise
Anyway Im interest in what mistakes Fujimi made in the 1/700 and 1/350 IJN Ise. Please can you help me pointing them out ?
Thanks in advance.

[Atma]

For a starting point is that for some unknown reason the 1/700 version of IJN Ise donstn have the 1,5 meter R/F director, while the 1/350 version has it.
Anyway I hope you can help me pointing more(if any) mistakes/error on Fujimi's /1350 and 1/700 IJN Ise.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

For a starting point is that for some unknown reason the 1/700 version of IJN Ise donstn have the 1,5 meter R/F director, while the 1/350 version has it.
Anyway I hope you can help me pointing more(if any) mistakes/error on Fujimi's /1350 and 1/700 IJN Ise.

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uha, Fujimi kitmodels, esp. Ise/Hyuga 1/350 have so many mistakes that it might take months!( a half joke) to reveal them all. 1/700 of the same shipmodel of the company is out of my reach, since i don�t build it. I�m not a kitmodel building fan,and I was derfore having quite a relaxed attitude to them about whatever mistakes they may make on their roducts.
A model is a model in the long run is one of my mottoes.

However, on full scratch build models in much larger scales,i wish I would be a bit more exact,if ever.



Mutsuo.S.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Well at least in the Heavy Cruisers I suspect the training aiming devices where removed maybe for weight compensations measurements.

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I bet IJN had another criteria to remove/move them rather than weight compensensation, commissioning/decommissioning will have less to do with it. To make a long story short,the year of removal of the devie boxes are not determined by year shift into 1943.
pls take another look at the images posted now.



/Mutsuo S.
More exlanations will be following after I take a late lunch

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

hello all,
a) I tried with another example of a heavy cruiser with aiming device boxes on the turret roofs as of November,1943.
She is at Rabaul harbor, not being in any form of positve battle duty,then, receives an attack from the air.

b) My take is Takao class heavy cruisers must have been in the same conditon with regard to the device boxs.

c)In the former posting, i have shown an example of R.K. flagship Oyodo has the divice boxes mounted as covered with canvass, when she was anchored off kisarazu,Chiba pref.in May month, 1944.

Now that I have attempted to find several visual examples so far, I should think it �s up to each ship modeller whether or not they express the devices on the turret roofs.

Thus, I personally believe existence of the devices on kitmodel makers�models is not entirely incorrect. And there is no need of cutting them off from models,too.

It�s up to each modeller.
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In re?rospect IJN was following the battle doctrines and rules from the sea battle of Tsushima,may 27,1905.
They did practice by?using the aiming devices ,and they firmly believed reason of their landslide was repeated practices/exercises of it which had attributed greatly to achievements of lots of scores on the russian ships.(there is a good description concerning this on a ship blog =Sakura to Ikari ,????????????driven by ex Kirishima skipper(MDF)

When the ships are in homeland harbours ,taking a rest ,suppying, or at southern front bases, ijn gun section crews of fleets are not idling away their times. They used to practice shootings by use of the aiming devices ,practicde guns in the mornings and the afternoons.No holidays are allowed until they are relieved.

The boxes themselves are quite easy to removed/placed again ,at least for BBs,they are not screwd to the surface of the turret,they used strips(or could be chains) to tighten them when in use.


cheers,
Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

uha, Fujimi kitmodels, esp. Ise/Hyuga 1/350 have so many mistakes that it might take months!( a half joke) to reveal them all.


Mutsuo.S.

I think you mistake the old Hasegawa models, cause the new Fujimi IJN Ise according to my gakken books is almost perfect. And Fujimi(at the moment) has only released the IJN Ise in late 1944/early 1945 configuration.Never a IJN Hyuga in any scale.

[Atma]

hello all,

Now that I have attempted to find several visual examples so far, I should think it �s up to each ship modeller whether or not they express the devices on the turret roofs.


Mutsuo S.

Still I have to see a picture of removable aiming training devices. For example the devices in IJN Ise is all absent from 1944 and 1945/46 pictures, once they got landed they never returned, same with IJN Nachi or IJN Tone.

a) I tried with another example of a heavy cruiser with aiming device boxes on the turret roofs as of November,1943.
She is at Rabaul harbor, not being in any form of positve battle duty,then, receives an attack from the air.

b) My take is Takao class heavy cruisers must have been in the same conditon with regard to the device boxs.


Mutsuo S.

The whole IJN Mogami class, IJN Aoba, IJN Maya, IJN Takao, IJN Myoko and IJN Tone and didnt had aiming device boxes on the turret roofs in 1944 and in 1945/46. I have yet to see a clear picture of IJN Chikuma and IJN Haguro/IJN Ashigara and IJN Atago/IJN Chokai from 1944 and onwards.IJN Mogami class never had aiming device boxes after the conversion to 20 cm main guns.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

uha, Fujimi kitmodels, esp. Ise/Hyuga 1/350 have so many mistakes that it might take months!( a half joke) to reveal them all.


Mutsuo.S.

I think you mistake the old Hasegawa models, cause the new Fujimi IJN Ise according to my gakken books is almost perfect. And Fujimi(at the moment) has only released the IJN Ise in late 1944/early 1945 configuration.Never a IJN Hyuga in any scale.

In the first place I must say I have nothing to do with old Hasegawa�s model.

At the first sales introduction/promotion campaign at their booth at that time, Fujimi co. did display 2 sister ships expressed in both Ise and as Hyuga from the same kit. In this regard one can regard this kid as totally convertible to both, right? Haven�t you seen them at that time, too? i think you hav . It�s just a matter of phraseology from my side. Not a real misundestanding, i hope.

In principle i shouldn�t care a bit who made which.
Plastic models is something which i love to stay away from my modelling life actually.

fyi I shall clearly point this out to you,when Fujimi was preparing the plan to merchandise this newer version of 1/350 kit model,they did mail-contact me for advices about aircraft deck & it�s relating points.
They didn�t take advices and got their miserable result on the 1/350 in other places of the ship which you appraise as almost perfect.

It�s a bit pity you didn�t notice those grave errors on this great Fujimi kitmodel.
As i say again there are many errors.
Repeatedly I�m not talking about old Hasegwa�s . Hope you got it right, now.

Mutsuo.S.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Mutsuo S.[/quote]
Still I have to see a picture of removable aiming training devices. For example the devices in IJN Ise is all absent from 1944 and 1945/46 pictures, once they got landed they never returned, same with IJN Nachi or IJN Tone.

a) I tried with another example of a heavy cruiser with aiming device boxes on the turret roofs as of November,1943.
She is at Rabaul harbor, not being in any form of positve battle duty,then, receives an attack from the air.

b) My take is Takao class heavy cruisers must have been in the same conditon with regard to the device boxs.


Mutsuo S.

The whole IJN Mogami class, IJN Aoba, IJN Maya, IJN Takao, IJN Myoko and IJN Tone and didnt had aiming device boxes on the turret roofs in 1944 and in 1945/46. I have yet to see a clear picture of IJN Chikuma and IJN Haguro/IJN Ashigara and IJN Atago/IJN Chokai from 1944 and onwards. IJN Mogami class never had aiming device boxes after the conversion to 20 cm main guns.[/quote]

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I bet you can�t find them when(if) there apparently are no more nice pics available 70 yrs after. can you?

I�m afraid you didnt seem to have understood what i have taken the length to explain so far.
A waste of time,maybe..

BTW I should think it�d do you good to get exposed to some knowledge about the so-alled IJN battle readiness condition.
Wthout it there would be a lot of difference /lack in grasping IJN matters incl.this device one.

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Now you saw pics of Haguro and Oyodo with the devices on the turret roof in 1943 and 1944.

I didn�t get any response regarding the 2 cruisers.And you start---asking for clearer pics of other cruisers.

And as a whole ships ? that wouldn�t be necesessary, the reason is cruiser sisters in one Sentai has the same weapon arangement. When you find one Takao has this device, it automatifcally means other 3 also have it. pls remember when they are out for operations, they take the boxes ou? from the roof top, and most of thepics you have seen of them, are such situation photos.

Also rememer the 1942 midway photo of Hiei and Kongo on their return from the sea.They don�t have the boxes on top.

IJN�s "weapons" don�t necessarily mean guns and torps., they include parvanes,sighting gears,optical ones and many other things. They are war-toys used for making wars.

So pls don�t get me wrong,when i use the word "weapons" (heiki) quite often.

But,
How can one help you out?
I don�t know.

Honestly, try asking Dan k. then, he might perhaps :
/

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

When the aiming training box question beocmes gradually settled down,I�ve tried to take a glimpse of some errors Fujimi committed on the 1/350 hybrid ise model. I had to break en route ,coz i felt exhausted tonight. Besides my own thing is awaiting me.
I took the liberty of using the image atma uploaded. don�t know where it came from.

bye for tonight

Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

Thanks for the information Mutsuo Sasaki

[Atma]

All those images are from Fujimi's 1/350 IJN Ise from Mr Peter Hoskins excellent model.
http://www.modelshipgallery.com/gallery ... index.html

Hope this image will help Mr Mutsuo Sasaki to point some more mistakes/inaccuracies on the Fujimi model.
Thanks in advance.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

there are plenty of errors and misconceptions, both major and minor in Fujimi�s 1/350 kit version.

Better wait untill a new Gakken CX/BB Hyuga will come out one day.
This will tell you a lot more.

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It was at Makuhari Model Hobby Messa , Oct. 2011
when they put on both Ise and Hyuga from the same box.

The deck work looks nice, but horrible and shocking.
Fujimi didin�t read or check the actual config.
I think fujmi�s tech adviser didin�t listen to me about the deck . amen

Both Fujimi Ise and Hyuga are there at the Messe. they only changed direction of the top of the rear mast.

Mutsuo S.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

there are at least 4 grave unforgiven errors in here.
Have used one of pics atma posted.


??This is like a Columbus�s egg.
You need to find them by yrself before he shows you how.


??However, as long as one plays with commercial kitmodels of this scale,
I myself think it�s ok and enjoyable with them.

no worry.

But larger scale models would have to be different from this. :

br
Mutsuo S.

[Atma]

Thank Mr Mutsuo Sasaki
But could you please clarify what's the error in the number 2# turret of IJN Ise from Fujimi in 1/350. I don't understand my self.
Thanks in advance.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Thank Mr Mutsuo Sasaki
But could you please clarify what's the error in the number 2# turret of IJN Ise from Fujimi in 1/350. I don't understand my self.
Thanks in advance.

you can check it up on one of the Hans Lengerer�s books which deals with pics of ISE.
When you did it, i think i may follow this up later , hopefully before Xmas.


Mutsuo S

[Atma]

you can check it up on one of the Hans Lengerer�s books which deals with pics of ISE.
When you did it, i think i may follow this up later , hopefully before Xmas.


Mutsuo S

Oh too bad I dont have that book and is sadly hard to find. Anyway thanks Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

you can check it up on one of the Hans Lengerer�s books which deals with pics of ISE.
When you did it, i think i may follow this up later , hopefully before Xmas.
Mutsuo S

Oh too bad I dont have that book and is sadly hard to find. Anyway thanks Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki.

I�ll have to be on xmas shopping today and over the weekend, when I settle down a bit,i hope i have some more free time.
Mutsuo

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

you can check it up on one of the Hans Lengerer�s books which deals with pics of ISE.
When you did it, i think i may follow this up later , hopefully before Xmas. by Mutsuo

Oh too bad I dont have that book and is sadly hard to find. Anyway thanks Mr. Mutsuo Sasaki by atma

I�ll have to be on xmas shopping today and over the weekend, when I settle down a bit,i hope i have some more free time.

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hello,
There are actually several photos where we can confirm the difference atma wanna know, as I wrote before,it a minor one,though. My Hans L. book went to some Ise modeller,and i don�t possess it now. I suppose many or some of the board members must have acquired some of his books. There is the same pic on gakken #26 but the important section showing the difference is missing becuz of trimming,a pity.

/Mutsuo S.