The Ship Model Forum

Let's see if this works (from the inquiry on page 102, a photo of a VF-9 Hellcat from 69 years ago today):

Oh yeah, the caption (from the National Naval Aviation Museum Facebook page):

I'm not sure this is quite "appropriate" or the best way to do it, but here's a link to some great photos of some of USS Bunker Hill's aircraft. They're mainly CVG-84, but a few VF-8 Hellcats, some of which I've never seen before. I thought it might be worth sharing for anyone modeling the "Holiday Express"...

Got a question here, for the purposes of helping to plan a mid-war (1943) version of Trumpeter's 1/350 Yorktown CV-10 or, depending on the answer, some other period:

When, and under what circumstances, was Yorktown's original Measure 21 replaced with Measure 32/10a, Also, did she wear any other camouflage schemes between her service in MS 32/10a and her mothballing and subsequent modernization/reconstructions?

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Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10

May of 1944, when she arrived at Pearl Harbor to swap air groups (CAG 5 to CAG 1). Measure 21 again after the dazzle, and then possible Measure 13 before mothballs, post-war. I don't think it's that likely though.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

When would she have been put back to Measure 21? I'm assuming at some point after the sinking of Yamato...

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10

On/around March 1st, 1945 according to "The Fighting Lady" on P. 243.
My May 1944 date was pulled from the same book, but doesn't get as specific. Mainly says that as she sailed back to the war zone, she was sporting a new paint scheme.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Interesting. So she would in fact have been wearing MS 21 when sending her air wing to help in putting that monster under...

Hmmm...

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10

I'll try and find the passage to quote just to make sure.... unfortunately I don't have a good official Navy source for FORWARD work/changes yet.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I really appreciate the help, Tracy. I've got the Trumpeter 1/350 kit and want to do her in MS 21 because dazzle is hard (heh heh) and due to the fact that I've got an overabundance of Helldivers, this limits me to doing her during her shakedown or late-war, one of which (I'm not entirely sure) will require more corrective work than the other.

_________________
Sean Nash, ACG (aircraft camo gestapo)

On the ways:
1/200 Trumpeter HMS Nelson
1/700 Tamiya USS Yorktown CV-5

In the stash:
1/35 Italiari PT-109
1/35 Tamiya "Pibber" Patrol Boat
1/350 Trumpeter USS Yorktown CV-10

Late war is easier with the CV-10 kit. If you do early war you need to chop up the island a bit and build the stern quad 40mm tub.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

I hope you don't mind me jumping in here, but according to The Fighting Lady on page 297: "the Fighting Lady led the ships of Task Group 58.4 in column into Ulithi lagoon at midday of May 14, 1945... to begin repainting the exterior of the ship a dark 'Pacific' blue."

So, if Reynolds is right, Yorktown should have worn her dazzle when CVG-9 administered the coup de grace to Yamato.

It's hard to tell with the photo on page 253 if she had dazzle or not (from 18 March 1945)...

Mark's right - I went back and that page states she got a fresh coat of paint, but nothing more. There's a photo later in March showing her clearly in dazzle.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Can anyone help me identify where on Bunker Hill the attached photo might have been taken?

I'm going to guess it was Fly One or PriFly (too lazy to look up the correct name right now).

The gentleman to the left is Victor Hughen, and his grandson said he thinks he helped get the planes below after landing.

Thanks in advance!

He thinks the photo was taken a few weeks before Bunker Hill took her two kamikazes, so late April/early May 1945...

Did he ever serve on Enterprise, and how long did he serve after the war? I can't think of any Essex class in WWII that had square windows like that on the island.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Tracy, I don't think he ever served on the Big E. And I'll ask him about post-war service, but he said the photo was taken shortly before Bunker Hill was kamikazed, which would place it before 11 May 1945.

Kennedy's "Danger's Hour" has a drawing of Bunker Hill's island on the back inside cover, and there are apparently some square/rectangular windows for what the drawing has labeled "Fly One", and if Hughen worked with flight deck coordination, that makes some sense to me. And in the drawing, there appears to be a roof over "Fly One", but it's not clear, and there's no telling where the artist got his/her info from...

I THINK I can see a window on the port side of the island aft of the 40 mm mount here:



Also, back to Reynolds' "The Fighting Lady", two photos with square windows come to mind. On the cover, Flatley's F6F-3 is "under" that same basic spot on the island, but it is open to the weather (i.e., no roof). Was this location later "roofed in" during her refit (and something similarly done to Bunker Hill during her's)? I looked quickly through my Essex photos and didn't find a similar photo, but I'll look more tomorrow.

Another "square window photo" in "The Fighting Lady" is on page 288, in the photo at the bottom of the page, George Earnshaw is in a compartment with rectangular windows. The interior photos of Bunker Hill and Yorktown were obviously (at least to me) taken in different parts of the ships, but I've got no clue where...

Thanks for checking.

Looking at resources a little more closely, I don't see anything on the outside of an Essex island (other than "Fly One) that has rectangular windows. Maybe the photo was taken in a compartment overlooking the hangar deck? That would make sense, too.

Anyway, goodnight for now.

Actually, given the 90 degree corner, I wouldn't be too surprised if that's the conflagration station station in the hangar bay. I've never seen evidence that the windows flipped in like that, but that's the closest match I can think of.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Thanks, Tracy.

I had thought about the conflagration station last night, too. However, where exactly was it?!

I looked at the layouts for Essex and Lexington in Raven's "Essex-Class Carriers", but don't find it (or any similar nomenclature) called out (unless I'm missing something, which is clearly possible!), either in the gallery, forecastle, hangar deck, etc. levels. I would think it would be on her starboard side under the island for the best overall view of the hangar...

There's a >=1953 photo in a Hornet (CV-12) book I've got that calls out her conflagration station, but it has three visible slits for windows (I'm guessing it was armored). So, since it was taken after her post-war refit, I don't trust it for a WW II layout.

And after digging through many of my books, I get why you asked about the Big E, I forgot how many rectangular windows she had along the port side of her island!

I did find this image of Hornet's PriFly/Fly One/whatever, and I can tell the CV-17 photo I asked about and where I thought it might have been taken on the island are NOT the same. (It does show the "roof" pretty nicely.)

I just can't figure out where else on the ship where there were windows like that. I'll go look through the hangar photos from earlier in the thread, perhaps...