The Ship Model Forum

I am actually getting quite annoyed with all the negative comments regarding Pontos on here.

I have met Kim and one or two others from Pontos at the UK Nationals a couple of years ago and have to say they are amongst the most polite, modest, engaging people you will ever meet.

They make wonderful products, clearly aimed at the more experienced builder, they listen to their customers and try their utmost to make the most accurate, best researched, beautifully finished and packaged detail sets.

Of course there will be small errors in the instructions from time to time and yes, I would expect to have to work a little more than buying a basic kit off the shelf and adding a simple PE set to it... And remember, they are even listening to modellers and adding updates, enhancing the basic sets and incorporating requests from people (some of whom may never even buy their sets...) because they see that these requests are what real MODELLERS want... That has to be applauded and it has to be respected. Of course this will mean things get delayed from time to time... But that's the price you pay for input during the development phase.

And when you leave it to the manufacturer to do the job of not just designing, developing, testing and then selling the items... when it gets to the end user, having to deal with all the customer service issues as well... well of course things get forgotten.

In the earlier, pre-internet world, you would go back to your retailer for help and support... Unfortunately, as people seem to want to spend the least amount they can on anything nowadays, ordering from the manufacturer or a huge international company means the personal service is sometimes less than we would have liked or even accepted a few years ago.

But that is the world we live in now.

If you want your local hobby shop to stock these sets and have several spares just in case you lost or damaged a bit, or it was missing, then you would need to pay a lot more. Spares cost... somewhere they have to be paid for, either in the initial cost of the kit or as spares. But people don't want to pay... which is why the local hobby store has closed... they cannot make their overheads and come away with a reasonable living because some, or most, of their customers are just not prepared to pay for the service they purport to want and need.

As far as instructions are concerned, I don't really understand. No-one would EVER build a model, particularly a large scale Bismarck, and expect to have no additional research material to support the build process. One of the best and most interesting parts of any building of models beyond the basic 'follow the instructions' level is working out how to best do something, scratch building improvements when necessary, adopting already great PE additions if required for an even better, more personal model.

I think Pontos are aiming at advanced modellers who are prepared to put a little extra work in, to think about how they are going about the job and then who ADD to the experience, with their own thoughts and input to make a truly individual model.

I remember the days when actually getting a new ship kit to build was enough of an event... now we have new ships released all the time, in a variety of scales, with numerous update sets for all levels of modeller from the very basic to the most advanced.

Pontos are supplying update sets to the most advanced, and the details and enhancements possible now are beyond the imagination of those of us who started modelling seriously, even ten or fifteen years ago... let alone the thirty or forty years that I have been modelling!

I have their HMS Warspite set. Of course there are areas I would have liked to have been more accurate or to have been upgraded, or some clarification in the instructions... The splinter shields around the 4" HA guns for example changed several times during the ships wartime refits and modifications. But I am a modeller first and foremost. Its part of the fun to research, compare the basic kit, the upgrade set and then a load of contemporary photos and work out whether to assemble as instructed, modify the part or to scratch build something entirely different for that little bit of additional accuracy or that little bit of extra individuality.

Interestingly, I don't see many actual modellers complaining too much on this thread...

I think Pontos and companies like them are a godsend to the hobby and long may they continue to produce products of this level. This is a small market. The returns cannot be high considering the amount of work and development and simple care that goes into these sets. They are a labour of love... I know... I met the people...

Would you please read and reply my PM (personal message) or emails I sent to you on 7th May regarding of missing parts for all my 3 Pontos sets that you promised to send to me since February? My email/information is in the PM.

Thanks,

BEWARE WITH PONTOS
I also bought this kit and the kit arrived incomplete.
I still have not gotten Pontos send me the missing pieces. (two months¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡¡).
If you are going to buy some from PONTOS, think about how many people are disappointed by them.
BEWARE WITH PONTOS

I think folks who's orders come up short have a legitimate right to bring those to the attention of others if they aren't getting satisfaction or results. However, there is a right and wrong way to do it. There is also the right place and time.

You should, obviously, start with a private message/e-mail to the manufacturer. Then, if you don't get any results after repeated attempts, then post your concerns for others. With all the stuff Pontos has released and has in the works, I am sure they aren't reading every post in every one of their threads. So, instead of hijacking these threads with your complaints, put them someplace that might draw more attention or notice from folks - perhaps the main forum.

And if you want to be taken seriously, have some facts, don't just post come off like a villain in a Scooby Doo episode...."Beware! Beware!"

Zoinks! That's my two cents...

Virachat,
It is my fault.
By next wednesday we can't ship anything to our customers so I would start to ship these Aftersale service items from 31th July. I will check again and ship yours at first shipping.
A I once noted, I will print your address not write.
I am sorry again.

Thank you
Keumho Kim

Sorry again..

I've used many Pontos sets and have been very happy with them. One set was short a few pieces, received them a couple weeks after I asked for them. In the mean time I went on with another Job. Many people complained about the instructions in the Bismarck set, yep they're not great but not a disaster. My Bismarck turned out great. Overall I hate seeing complaints on this board. There is a procedure, use it.

Thanks Mr Kim and team for the great work. I'm just finishing a Trumpy Belfast using Flyhawk and have really missed the accuracy that you guys have brought to etch. I have another Belfast waiting for your set.

David Gatt

An open reply to AlanG

Actually I have read the entire thread... I follow all threads that interest me, every day, and have done for several years.

As far as this particular thread is concerned, I think that there is a very clear middle ground on this. Let me direct you to Martin Quinns' reply a day or so ago. I think I agree with Martin on every point.

Of course Pontos have been lax in replying to email. I also think their customer service has been lacking over the past few months and I know customers are likely to be very irritated/disappointed in the service they have received.

However, there are ways of communicating things clearly and in a measured way... as Martin said..

I think folks who's orders come up short have a legitimate right to bring those to the attention of others if they aren't getting satisfaction or results. However, there is a right and wrong way to do it. There is also the right place and time.

You should, obviously, start with a private message/e-mail to the manufacturer. Then, if you don't get any results after repeated attempts, then post your concerns for others. With all the stuff Pontos has released and has in the works, I am sure they aren't reading every post in every one of their threads. So, instead of hijacking these threads with your complaints, put them someplace that might draw more attention or notice from folks - perhaps the main forum.

I think this is absolutely right. My annoyance was with the fact that the thread had been hijacked by often extremely rude and aggressive posts.

I am aware of the work you and a few other modellers had put in to correcting the instruction sheets and helping other modellers. I think you and all involved should be commended.

However, we ALL correct either incorrect instructions or, very often, correct faults and failings in the models we build and pass that on to other modellers. The WIP section is extremely useful for this... however, it requires someone actually building the model and posting his/her findings as they proceed. (For example, I am currently building the Dragon 700 scale HMS Daring Type 45 AAW destroyer and have found numerous faults, inaccuracies and areas that could be improved as I build... and I fully intend to post in the WIP section over the next few days to show several months of modelling, but with work and family pressure, probably only two or three hours a week of actual building!).

In the case of the instruction set, it is obvious that this became a project in itself. I think that the effort required and the time taken deserved an acknowledgement from Pontos and I thought you have received that. (I actually think you should be sent a complete and fully updated set to be honest...).

Kim has come on over the past few days and admitted his failure to respond in a timely manner to customers who have received poor products and service and has apologised to those affected.

It is clear that they are a very small company, who take on much too much work and maybe they should simply not announce products in development and then present a finished item when completed.

However, I am not sure I would welcome that and I am not sure many others would either. It is really rather exciting to see developing products and CAD built detail items as the development proceeds and I would miss that. It is also a brilliant way of generating interest and a great marketing ploy in this day and age of instant communication. Those posts where the actual real parts are built and presented are incredibly compelling.

So... where do we stand?

I'm happy that the points raised have elicited a response from Kim and that he has promised to deal with the backlog of customers who have been ignored for, in some cases, months.

I'm less happy with the member who actually said I 'blatantly lied' about the packaging on my Warspite update set... I'll put that down to the writer clearly not writing in his first language... but it is that use of language and that amount of venom that I think inappropriate on here.

None of us are perfect and Kim and Ponto's HAVE let down their customers quite badly with regard to their after sales service, but they produce great models, superb update sets and most of all, they listen to what you and I want.

I would hate for them to stop communicating with us on here... and that would have been the danger had Kim and his colleagues been less honest and less contrite over the past day or so.

As I said before... they are good guys at heart I believe.