The Ship Model Forum

Greetings
At your ship club meeting I demonstrated Tungsten wire as a rigging material. The purpose is to replicate natural "sag" in the cable. I purchased some "straightened and annealed" but even coming off the spool it has some curve in it. I'm wondering....

1. Does anyone have any thoughts about reducing the amount of curl coming off the spool? Does pulling work?
2. Has anyone had any experience with his material and can you provide some best practices? What glue are you using? What sequence do you use in rigging the model? Do you paint before or after?
3. What tools do you use to cut the wire?

I'm seeing a lot of potential with this material. Here's the demonstration piece I made for our ship club meeting...

Tungsten is a very hard to solder. Sometimes unpredictable bursts due to the presence of impurities.

This is why I prefer stretched sprue.

David - what you've posted is the best tungsten wire modelling I've seen. I'm afraid YOU are the go to person. I marvel at the sag (catenary curve) you've achieved. My efforts include all the shape memory the wire has of being curled up in its reel AND the newly induced shape memory of my efforts to straighten it. I have given up on Tungsten wire and warned all my friends - it is truly a work of the devil.

However your posted pictures give me new hope - I will rummage around the trash to find my tungsten wire and try again.

Thanks for the inspiration

Lester Abbey

what's the advantage of tungsten over other material for rigging? just curious.

The idea is to be able to replicate a correct line sag. The issue with materials like fishing line, sprue, etc. is that it is not straight. You may get a "sag" when looking at it from he side but it likely will have a twist in it and not look natural from other angles. Tungsten that's been professionally straightened gives you that natural look.
Dave

What about Cu and NiCr (Konstantan) ? Copper can be straightend by pulling and then you can give it a light curve by judiciously drawing the wire across a round piece of steel or similar. In this way you can simulate a real catena, i.e. a curve that is (sort of) parabolic.

Fly-tying thread can also be stiffend using varnish and suspended in a suitabale curve while drying; from this you cut a piece to size.

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Eberhard

Former chairman Arbeitskreis historischer Schiffbau e.V. (German Association for Shipbuilding History)

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I have used Tungsten wire, as well as Copper and Nickel (or Chrome-molly) for doing WWI Model Airplanes.

It can be tricky to work with because it is so tough, and elastic (returns to prior shape).

The sag you have above looks pretty good.

But if you are looking to straighten it even more, then stretching it out on an armature or frame, and then re-tempering, and then re-annealing will get it to be STRAIGHT.

We had to do this for 1/144 WWI aircraft.

I found copper wire to be better than Tungsten, as the copper wire tended to behave better (kept the shape). It is more "Malleable" than is Tungsten.

Tungsten is GREAT for strength, and for durability. But it is not very good for malleability, and it needs to be originally shaped for an application (prior to tempering, shaped exactly), because it is very difficult to un-do a Tungsten object after tempering (even with annealing). So, if you have the time and patience to work the thread into the right consistency, before shaping it, then Tungsten is a good choice.

Otherwise, I would go with copper.

I have not yet started rigging ships, but I do plan to with my USN DDs (1/700), and then with the remaining ships I do afterwards. But I will be using Copper.

There is a chance that I might have an opportunity to pick up some carbon-fiber, though, so I might try that out. But unless it is free, I wouldn't bother with it (It is freakishly expensive).

MB

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OMG LOOK! A signature

Working on:


1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
HIJMS Aoba & Kinugasa
USS San Francisco
USS Helena
USS St. Louis
USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16

Not sure what wire I use, but lately I've used some silver, metal wire I recycled from some fine elec. cable bundles in an old HP printer. The plastic insulation is purple if that means anything; I haven't determined the wire diameter but it is much smaller than the multi-strand copper telephone wires you find in land line phone systems (red/yellow/blue/black). These wires worked fine for my wire rope needed on my PENNSY boat cranes. I don't know how they would do for very long runs of wire. They do bend, but are fragile and can't be bent too much before breaking. Getting them out of the plastic insulation is tricky, but doable.

I also use E-Z- Line from Berkshire Junction RR supplies - it's fine, black, BUT stretches which is a negative when trying to install. http://www.berkshirejunction.com/

As for the tungsten wire, where is this found (vendor, etc.)?

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48

Why isn't Modelkasten more popular? I love the stuff. Costs more than the gdp of a small country though.

Can you tell us more about the Modelkasten wire and why you like it? What traits does it exhibit and how do you work with it?

Thanks!
Dave

Sure I can. It comes off the spool as straight as an arrow, it's metal wore so it adds to the strength of the mast, glues perfectly, comes in 3 or 4 thicknesses, and it sags very naturally in 1/700.

It's really great stuff

Thanks for the feedback. I've ordered a spool and am anxious to compare it to the Tungsten wire.
Dave

No memory and it doesn't bend or break. Not sure what it is, but I love the stuff

Hi Speedbird - so where did you get this "Modelkasten'?

Hi Lester,
I may be able to help you with this. I found this at Hobby Link Japan and also Hobby Search also in Japan. HLJ has the lower price but Hobby Search has a couple more options. Both very good vendors. I found it in the US at Sprue Brothers but my guess is that in New Zealand you'll get a better deal out of Japan.
Good luck
Dave

Thanks David, I know Hobbylink and Hobby Search very well. I'm sure they know my credit card number by heart by now.

You mentioned using Modelkasten in 1/700. How would it fair in 1/350? I have to redo the rigging on my Nagara as it was trashed by a judge at an IPMS show.

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Gabriel

Very well actually. I wish I could put a table in here but let's see if I can make this work. Here are some rounded conversions for you...

2 in = 51mm: 1/700 scale= .07mm; 1/350 scale=.14mm
1 in = 25mm: 1/700 scale=.036mm; 1/350 scale=.07mm
.75 in = 19mm: 1/700 scale=.027mm; 1/350 scale=.027mm
.5 in = 12.7mm; 1/700 scale= .018mm; 1/350 scale=.036mm

The Modelkasten lists the mm measurement on their package. It comes in a variety of diameters. There are apparently several different styles. They sell their regular, what they call a "PRO", and black. There are a few more choices at Hobby Search than HLJ. If you click on the images of the spools it spells out the diameters which are as follows:
Regular (and I don't understand the labeling) is listed on their package label and sold as follows:

.06= .047mm (they list as 1/700)
.1 = .06mm (they list as 1/700)
.15= .07mm (they list as 1/700)
.3= .10mm (they list as 1/350)

The PRO at Hobby Search is listed as follows:
.04 and .08 mm

They list a "Black" at a .04mm

I hope that makes sense. You'll have to decide how true you'll want to stay to actual measurements. I can tell you I sampled some .038 mm Tungsten wire and it works well for 1/700. Get your magnifiers out.
Dave

I use the 0.15, the thickest of the 1/700 appropriate rigging. I've used their smaller gauges for Bismarck and HMS Malaya and they're almost too fine. Using 2 guages adds to the realism anyway.

I custom cut each piece to minimize waste, and I save all the scraps to make awning supports. I can eek out 2.5 to 3 ships in 1/700 with the stuff if I'm careful. At $20 a pop, it's worth it to be frugal.

Also, they do anchor chain, but forget it. It's a braided filament that kinda looks like chain. I've used it for rolled torpedo nets and other misc projects but I wouldn't bother