Calling all British pre-dreadnought fans

[Timmy C]

Two main things made HMS Dreadnought (and thus the namesake category) stand out: the battery arrangement AND the use of turbines for the engines. Though Duncan and the even newer Lord Nelson class may have been stepping stones towards the Dreadnought's gun arrangement, their lack of turbines (and the speed they afforded) safely discounted them from being the "revolutionary" category-setter that Dreadnought was.

[speedbird]

I'll go along with that. I just thought that if we were going on artillery alone, the Duncans and the Nelsons are nearly there at least.

I see what you mean about Dreadnought though, she really was the "full package" so to speak.

[Timmy C]

I wouldn't say the Duncans were even close - she only had four of the 12" guns, while the next largest were 6" which wouldn't be at all useful in the same way Dreadnought's ten/eight 12" were.

[SeanF]

Probably better to cite the succeeding King Edward VII-class instead of the Duncan-class for this line of argument. Not much about the Duncans that sets them apart from earlier British pre-dreads aside from their higher speed.

- Sean F.

[g. shoda]

I'm working on a model of HMS Collingwood of the Admiral class. Does anyone have any photos of the superstructure or bridges?

[peppe]

i have some foto scannerized from the two russian booklets of morskaia kollectia on the admiral class more some foto of a virtual model of hood and foto of the other ship of the class. they are some foto on first volume of burt and in a russian edition of Parks (vol 3). if you are interested send me by pm your e mail address
ciao peppe

[DariusP]

I'm working on a model of HMS Collingwood of the Admiral class. Does anyone have any photos of the superstructure or bridges?

Nothing on Collingwood I'm afraid but I have photos of a lovely model of Anson. If you PM me your email address I will send them to you.

[Jack G]

Speedbird - wonderful sketching.

In response to your question, from memory, the Duncans were created to match a reported 19 knot Russian class, and intended for China Station service. Being lighter of armour, some officers regarded them as 2nd class battleships. Burt in his book mentions Renown, Duncan, Canopus classes as being a forerunner to the battlecruiser - but in truth they were very close in speed to the other ships. Moreover, the large armoured cruisers were being termed 'battlecruiser' in the 1890s, and more ominously were being included in battlefleet planning.

There exists online a dissertation "The Genesis of a Cruiser Navy: British First Class Cruiser Development 1884-1909" by Scott M Lindgren which is a treasure trove on these vessels and the navy operating them. You can find it as a pdf.

[speedbird]

Would Vallejo 991 be an acceptable shade of medium grey for Montagu in her earlyier days?





Littorio is painted in 991 and I've read a couple sources that say 991 is acceptable. If anyone has a better suggestion, I'm all ears.

[pascalemod]

Guys, is there a full hull 1/700 pre-dreadnought royal navy battleship?

[Spopovich]

HMS Agamemnon (1906) by Hobby Boss


There is a piece pictured (E17) that goes on the lifeboat deck. At first I thought it was a platform for one of the boats to stand on, but no other piece goes on E17.

To me it looks like a wooden raft or pontoon though to what end on a battleship, I don't know. For painting purposes I need to know what it is. Any ideas?

[tjstoneman]

Part E17 is a "copper punt". To quote the "Royal Navy Diction & Slang - HMS Richmond" website:

COPPER PUNT
The name given to the raft used by the Side party for work about the ship's water line. The name originates from the days when ships were sheathed with copper, the raft being used by shipwrights for making repairs to the sheathing. The raft is often also called the Balsa Raft since this latter life-saving raft was replaced by Carley Floats.

[Spopovich]

Part E17 is a "copper punt". To quote the "Royal Navy Diction & Slang - HMS Richmond" website:

COPPER PUNT
The name given to the raft used by the Side party for work about the ship's water line. The name originates from the days when ships were sheathed with copper, the raft being used by shipwrights for making repairs to the sheathing. The raft is often also called the Balsa Raft since this latter life-saving raft was replaced by Carley Floats.

Perfect, thanks mate. Quite thorough of Hobby Boss to include this small detail.

[Matthew in TO]

I�ve been looking for British predreadnoughts larger than 1/700, so thanks for twigging me onto http://combrig-models.com/index.php/135 ... on350-1908

[Matthew in TO]

But, after saying all that, it is a sad fact that there is not much info about those ships. American, French or even Russian vessels are covered in much greater detail than the British ones!

I�m finding this out myself now. Britain arguably made the best predreadnought battleships, and built the largest empire in history policed by these black, buff, white and blue ships. So, I�m surprised to discover that there are essentially zero plastic kits of British predreadnoughts, beyond the Lord Nelson class - nice ships but never wore the Victorian blue and buff colour scheme, and entered service after HMS Dreadnought. What I really want is a plastic kit of HMS Canopus, AIUI the last class to wear the Victorian colours.

[Matthew in TO]

I wouldn't say the Duncans were even close - she only had four of the 12" guns, while the next largest were 6" which wouldn't be at all useful in the same way Dreadnought's ten/eight 12" were.

Germany�s first predreadnought, the Brandenburg class has six 11� guns. I�m surprised this wasn�t repeated.

[rd2jones]

Does anyone know where I might find cross-sections of either of these two (HMS Lord Nelson or Agamemnon (1908)) pre-dreadnoughts, for determining the shape of the hull framing? A profile that identifies the cross-section positions would also be useful!

Thanks in advance!

[Matthew in TO]

I just received my copy of British Battleships, 1889-1904, Author: R. A. Burt. It has the pics you need.

Also a great sources for ship plans is the below. I found some predreadnought plans by searching 1904, but no Lord Nelson. I reco you dig through this site though, as plans are not always in the years you expect to see them.

https://culturepics.org/on-this-day/ind ... ollections#

[gms]

Matthew in TO: Thanks for posting the link. I copied some of the diagrams for future reference.

[peppe]

may help? i have a russian magazine on the class with foto, profiles and some drawing.. if yu are interested send me email by pm
ciao peppe