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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Daytona675R wrote:
A nice find! As such, I think we can expect even the mounts below the aft Mk 37 director to be twins. I don't see any sense in leaving just four singles among all other twins.

Thanks! That find was a very unexpected find. I saw the cruise book cd/rom and found the preview in a google search yesterday. I looked at the picture on pg. 144 of USS California by David Doyle. They appear to be twins as well. I can't see the gun barrels, but I compared the shield of the mounts with the mount on the fantail. The gap for the guns in the shields look to be the same size.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:10 am 
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Do we have a picture of how the aft crane for the float planes was storage on deck when not in use ? And does the big 5 had larger float plane's crane than the USS South Dakota class ? At least thats the way the Trumpeter kits are made in 1/700(The Big 5 have a larger crane and the USS South Dakota class smaller, is that a scale inaccuracy ?).
Thanks in advance :thumbs_up_1:


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:52 pm 
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Atma wrote:
Do we have a picture of how the aft crane for the float planes was storage on deck when not in use ? And does the big 5 had larger float plane's crane than the USS South Dakota class ? At least thats the way the Trumpeter kits are made in 1/700(The Big 5 have a larger crane and the USS South Dakota class smaller, is that a scale inaccuracy ?).
Thanks in advance :thumbs_up_1:

Post-war pic of the California with seaplanes.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014468a.jpg
The Big 5's aft cranes could be larger. The construction is also a bit different and 20 years older than the South Dakota class.
Tennessee's crane
http://navsource.org/archives/01/043/014389o.jpg
South Dakota's crane
http://navsource.org/archives/01/057/015700g.jpg


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 5:39 pm 
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Thanks Bioshock73 :thumbs_up_1:
By the way, those 8's shapes are ropes ?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2017 9:05 pm 
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bioshock73 wrote:
The Big 5's aft cranes could be larger. The construction is also a bit different and 20 years older than the South Dakota class.

Careful with those assumptions. The ships might have been 20 years older, but the cranes were not. All of the "Big 5" were completed without catapults or stern cranes. The first stern cranes were simple booms that were not replaced by the "final design" lattice cranes until around 1935.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:15 pm 
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Dick J wrote:
bioshock73 wrote:
The Big 5's aft cranes could be larger. The construction is also a bit different and 20 years older than the South Dakota class.

Careful with those assumptions. The ships might have been 20 years older, but the cranes were not. All of the "Big 5" were completed without catapults or stern cranes. The first stern cranes were simple booms that were not replaced by the "final design" lattice cranes until around 1935.

Derp moment


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2017 2:16 pm 
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Atma wrote:
Thanks Bioshock73 :thumbs_up_1:
By the way, those 8's shapes are ropes ?

Either that or steel cables.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 5:10 am 
I should probably try and remember my username as it's been a while since I've been on this site, but I am currently working on the 1/700 trumpeter uss california 1945. I usually do extensive research on layouts and such on current builds, but somehow I failed to realize that the CA went through a final refit in 1945 and there are subtle differences from her 1944 layout. problem is I started painting her as her 1944 ms32 16d. My question is, how hard would it be, and what would I have to do to revert her to her 1944 layout? I know the platform along her superstructure was removed, more quads were added as well as AA gun placements were added on her decking. Is it possible or should I just drop the ms32 (even though the hull and super structure are painted that way) and paint it in the solid 5-N?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:26 am 
Hello, new here

But I'm currently build the trumpeter 1/700 uss california 1945. I usually do extensive research before I start a build, bu5 somehow I failed to realize the differences in her 1944 and 1945 refits. The main issue is I started building and painting the California as her 1944 ms 32 16d camo. My question is, what exactly would I need to do to revert her from her 1945 refit to her 1944 layout?


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 9:15 pm 
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Let's start with this: How far along is assembly, and/or how easily could you break loose what is built? Aside from the difference at the top of the superstructure, the main issue is the revision to positions & shapes of the 20mm platforms, as almost all the singles were swapped out to twins but the particulars of the layout change significantly on the main deck levels. You'd need the deck pieces from the West Virginia 1945 kit to properly do CA in her dazzle pattern. If you're not too far along and really want an accurate dazzle-pattern CA, you could get that WV kit for a replacement (and hull, if your CA deck is already glued solidly to the other hull) and upper superstructure pieces to pair with the other parts you already have painted.

If stuff is already too solidly anchored then you'll have to go blue if you want accuracy. (Or really mess with people's expectations and do a late '45 fit with bare wood decks and overall haze gray paint)

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:47 am 
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SeanF wrote:
Let's start with this: How far along is assembly, and/or how easily could you break loose what is built? Aside from the difference at the top of the superstructure, the main issue is the revision to positions & shapes of the 20mm platforms, as almost all the singles were swapped out to twins but the particulars of the layout change significantly on the main deck levels. You'd need the deck pieces from the West Virginia 1945 kit to properly do CA in her dazzle pattern. If you're not too far along and really want an accurate dazzle-pattern CA, you could get that WV kit for a replacement (and hull, if your CA deck is already glued solidly to the other hull) and upper superstructure pieces to pair with the other parts you already have painted.

If stuff is already too solidly anchored then you'll have to go blue if you want accuracy. (Or really mess with people's expectations and do a late '45 fit with bare wood decks and overall haze gray paint)

- Sean F.


I have the superstructure (bridge, funnel and aft structures), and decking secure to the hull. Was assembling the individual pieces for the 20mm platforms, but they are not glued down as I was about to paint them. On one side I do have the mount for the fire director down and, idk what it is, like a open platform used for rigging, not sure what it's used for, that is next to the fire director. That's where I noticed something was off between what I was doing and all my reference material. Might be to far along to use those parts from the WV kit sadly. What's the main difference between the 45 CA and the 45 WV? Or was the California the only one they did that final refit to? What parts would I be using?

Was hoping I wouldn't have to do the blue, I just find it underwhelming. Already have a (poorly) done south dakota in the blue and to me it's bland lol. Just my opinion though.

_________________
Complete:
1/700 USS California BB-44 (Trumpeter)
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-57 (Trumpeter)

in progress:
1/700 USS Montana BB-67
1/700 USS Houston CL-81

Waiting Drydock
1/700 USS Guam CB-2
1/700 Sigourney DD-643
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-49


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PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:22 pm 
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Betelguese90 wrote:
I have the superstructure (bridge, funnel and aft structures), and decking secure to the hull. Was assembling the individual pieces for the 20mm platforms, but they are not glued down as I was about to paint them. On one side I do have the mount for the fire director down and, idk what it is, like a open platform used for rigging, not sure what it's used for, that is next to the fire director. That's where I noticed something was off between what I was doing and all my reference material. Might be to far along to use those parts from the WV kit sadly. What's the main difference between the 45 CA and the 45 WV? Or was the California the only one they did that final refit to? What parts would I be using?

Was hoping I wouldn't have to do the blue, I just find it underwhelming. Already have a (poorly) done south dakota in the blue and to me it's bland lol. Just my opinion though.

Get Profile Morskie's California book. It is in her 1944 fit.
Also, you might be better using parts from the Tennessee. Very similar to California in 1944. You would have to play mix and match with some parts, like for the superstructure and 20mm guns. California had single 20mm mounts and did not get twin 20mm's until her '45 refit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:53 am 
bioshock73 wrote:
Betelguese90 wrote:
I have the superstructure (bridge, funnel and aft structures), and decking secure to the hull. Was assembling the individual pieces for the 20mm platforms, but they are not glued down as I was about to paint them. On one side I do have the mount for the fire director down and, idk what it is, like a open platform used for rigging, not sure what it's used for, that is next to the fire director. That's where I noticed something was off between what I was doing and all my reference material. Might be to far along to use those parts from the WV kit sadly. What's the main difference between the 45 CA and the 45 WV? Or was the California the only one they did that final refit to? What parts would I be using?

Was hoping I wouldn't have to do the blue, I just find it underwhelming. Already have a (poorly) done south dakota in the blue and to me it's bland lol. Just my opinion though.

Get Profile Morskie's California book. It is in her 1944 fit.
Also, you might be better using parts from the Tennessee. Very similar to California in 1944. You would have to play mix and match with some parts, like for the superstructure and 20mm guns. California had single 20mm mounts and did not get twin 20mm's until her '45 refit.


What we're the main differences between the Tennessee and california? I know even 2 sister ships in the same class with have differences between eachother.

I'll have to look into that book, possibly get the Tennessee if it's similar to the California in her 1944 layout and just swap out the superstructure to start. I haven't even gotten to the point of mounting the guns yet anyways lol. But did the Iowas use the single or were they always the twin 20mms? I and cause I have a Tamiya uss Missouri 1943 that I have as a spare for parts.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:20 pm 
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The '45 West Virginia kit is the one you want to start with if you want a California '44 (or to swipe the decks/platforms to backdate the already-started CA '45 kit). The AA layout is nearly identical.
Best not start with or swipe from the '44 Tennessee kit, as the AA layout is different enough from a '44 CA that you might as well scratchbuild the mods directly on the '45 CA kit.
Since all the Trumpeter/Pit Road Big 5 kits come with a complete set of 14" and 16" turrets there is no downside to building a '44 CA from their '45 WV kit, and several downsides to converting from the '44 TN or '45 CA kits.

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 5:43 am 
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Location: Lompoc, California
SeanF wrote:
The '45 West Virginia kit is the one you want to start with if you want a California '44 (or to swipe the decks/platforms to backdate the already-started CA '45 kit). The AA layout is nearly identical.
Best not start with or swipe from the '44 Tennessee kit, as the AA layout is different enough from a '44 CA that you might as well scratchbuild the mods directly on the '45 CA kit.
Since all the Trumpeter/Pit Road Big 5 kits come with a complete set of 14" and 16" turrets there is no downside to building a '44 CA from their '45 WV kit, and several downsides to converting from the '44 TN or '45 CA kits.

- Sean F.


OK awesome. I will look into the '45 West Virginia kit for the '44 california. Was wondering how different the Tennessee was from the California since 2 sister ships aren't always the same. I appreciate the help!

_________________
Complete:
1/700 USS California BB-44 (Trumpeter)
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-57 (Trumpeter)

in progress:
1/700 USS Montana BB-67
1/700 USS Houston CL-81

Waiting Drydock
1/700 USS Guam CB-2
1/700 Sigourney DD-643
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-49


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 6:17 am 
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SeanF wrote:
The '45 West Virginia kit is the one you want to start with if you want a California '44 (or to swipe the decks/platforms to backdate the already-started CA '45 kit). The AA layout is nearly identical.
Best not start with or swipe from the '44 Tennessee kit, as the AA layout is different enough from a '44 CA that you might as well scratchbuild the mods directly on the '45 CA kit.
Since all the Trumpeter/Pit Road Big 5 kits come with a complete set of 14" and 16" turrets there is no downside to building a '44 CA from their '45 WV kit, and several downsides to converting from the '44 TN or '45 CA kits.

- Sean F.

I looked at David Doyle's USS California. The pics showed more 20's than the sketches in Profile Morskie's booklet. The sketches are wrong. After more research, Tennesse's kit would not be a good sub. Sean's right.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:41 am 
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I didn't buy the '45 CA, so don't have the actual parts in-hand.
Looking at what I can find on-line, it appears the '45 CA kit might not be too bad a starting-off point after all. It seems to have the same 20mm shields as the WV kit to the sides of turret 2 (which seems to actually be incorrect for CA's final fit. See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014415.jpg - it looks like only the outermost pair, overhanging the edge of the deck, was retained after this refit). The 20mm shields on the aft deck, aft of the pair of 40mm tubs, look to be about right, too - just needing 20mm singles instead of twins. The main AA change you'll need to make aside from the 20mm twin/single swapping is to delete the midship pair of 40mm tubs and replace them with a set of 4 20mm singles on each side. See: http://navsource.org/archives/01/061/014402e.jpg
Cut out a notch between the tower and funnel (See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014445.jpg - note that the object obscuring the view between them is a searchlight in the foreground - and another beyond it, for that matter.), use Kingfishers instead of Seahawks, and I think you can salvage that dazzle pattern without cannibalizing another kit. I don't know if the necessary midship 20mm platforms are in your kit as leftover parts - you may have to scratchbuild them, and it'll take a little bit of sheet plastic to panel-in the openings when the superstructure notch is cut out, but these are relatively simple tasks.

- Sean F.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:03 am 
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SeanF wrote:
I didn't buy the '45 CA, so don't have the actual parts in-hand.
Looking at what I can find on-line, it appears the '45 CA kit might not be too bad a starting-off point after all. It seems to have the same 20mm shields as the WV kit to the sides of turret 2 (which seems to actually be incorrect for CA's final fit. See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014415.jpg - it looks like only the outermost pair, overhanging the edge of the deck, was retained after this refit). The 20mm shields on the aft deck, aft of the pair of 40mm tubs, look to be about right, too - just needing 20mm singles instead of twins. The main AA change you'll need to make aside from the 20mm twin/single swapping is to delete the midship pair of 40mm tubs and replace them with a set of 4 20mm singles on each side. See: http://navsource.org/archives/01/061/014402e.jpg
Cut out a notch between the tower and funnel (See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014445.jpg - note that the object obscuring the view between them is a searchlight in the foreground - and another beyond it, for that matter.), use Kingfishers instead of Seahawks, and I think you can salvage that dazzle pattern without cannibalizing another kit. I don't know if the necessary midship 20mm platforms are in your kit as leftover parts - you may have to scratchbuild them, and it'll take a little bit of sheet plastic to panel-in the openings when the superstructure notch is cut out, but these are relatively simple tasks.

- Sean F.

I have the California kit, it does not have the parts for the 20mm platforms. He's better off using a WV kit as you suggested previously. The area between the top of the tower and funnel on the California kit is flat (for lack of a better description) with the tower and the searchlight platforms removed. http://navsource.org/archives/01/044/014492x.jpg


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:56 am 
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SeanF wrote:
I didn't buy the '45 CA, so don't have the actual parts in-hand.
Looking at what I can find on-line, it appears the '45 CA kit might not be too bad a starting-off point after all. It seems to have the same 20mm shields as the WV kit to the sides of turret 2 (which seems to actually be incorrect for CA's final fit. See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014415.jpg - it looks like only the outermost pair, overhanging the edge of the deck, was retained after this refit). The 20mm shields on the aft deck, aft of the pair of 40mm tubs, look to be about right, too - just needing 20mm singles instead of twins. The main AA change you'll need to make aside from the 20mm twin/single swapping is to delete the midship pair of 40mm tubs and replace them with a set of 4 20mm singles on each side. See: http://navsource.org/archives/01/061/014402e.jpg
Cut out a notch between the tower and funnel (See: http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/014445.jpg - note that the object obscuring the view between them is a searchlight in the foreground - and another beyond it, for that matter.), use Kingfishers instead of Seahawks, and I think you can salvage that dazzle pattern without cannibalizing another kit. I don't know if the necessary midship 20mm platforms are in your kit as leftover parts - you may have to scratchbuild them, and it'll take a little bit of sheet plastic to panel-in the openings when the superstructure notch is cut out, but these are relatively simple tasks.

- Sean F.


Cutting in that notch shouldn't be to difficult. It retains most of the curvature and outline of the seperate structure and funnel. Quick cut and reshaping of the plastic should work. It also has a platform where those search lights are (wrong dimensions but same location). I'd have to scratch build the 20mm platforms as well, but the kit came with an extra super structure peice that I could probably salvage, reshape and use as the platform(as it's suspended on the side rather then fully down to the deck). I can't find a clear picture, but are the 20mm and 40mm placements by turret 3 the same in her 44 layout or were they changed alot in the 45 refit? As for the 40mm placements along the midship, were those any different from the different layouts as well? Can't tell, but main one I'm wondering about is the 40mm placements above and behind the forward 5inch turrets. If anything, I have spare parts from the numerous usn ships I've done, and also have a complete 43 Missouri kit (spare parts) that I can mess with too.

_________________
Complete:
1/700 USS California BB-44 (Trumpeter)
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-57 (Trumpeter)

in progress:
1/700 USS Montana BB-67
1/700 USS Houston CL-81

Waiting Drydock
1/700 USS Guam CB-2
1/700 Sigourney DD-643
1/700 USS South Dakota BB-49


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:10 am 
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Betelguese90 wrote:
Cutting in that notch shouldn't be to difficult. It retains most of the curvature and outline of the seperate structure and funnel. Quick cut and reshaping of the plastic should work. It also has a platform where those search lights are (wrong dimensions but same location). I'd have to scratch build the 20mm platforms as well, but the kit came with an extra super structure peice that I could probably salvage, reshape and use as the platform(as it's suspended on the side rather then fully down to the deck). I can't find a clear picture, but are the 20mm and 40mm placements by turret 3 the same in her 44 layout or were they changed alot in the 45 refit? As for the 40mm placements along the midship, were those any different from the different layouts as well? Can't tell, but main one I'm wondering about is the 40mm placements above and behind the forward 5inch turrets. If anything, I have spare parts from the numerous usn ships I've done, and also have a complete 43 Missouri kit (spare parts) that I can mess with too.

The 40mm tubs at the forward 5" guns were there after her rebuild, same with Tennessee and West Virginia. Number of 20mm mounts were reduced in the '45 refit when she got twin 20mm's.

If you are able to find it, get the book "USS California" by David Doyle. Lots of very good pictures of her '44 configuration and '45 refit that are not on http://www.navsource.org starting at page 104 of the book.
For the 20's by turret 3, there's 5 by the portside 40mm mount and 4 by the starboard side. There's a row of 4 20mm's on each side of the forward 40mm mount that's behind turret 2. On the deck below just forward of the rows of 4, those rows have 6 20mm's.


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