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PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 3:37 pm 
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It's arguable as to whether or not the TT trolley rails really need to be replaced with PE in 1/700. While undoubtedly a nice detail, the actual replacements are usually over scale. The real thing was only a couple of inches high. The molded in lines are all about 0.01" high, or less, which is no more than a scale 7".

Flyhawk has produced replacement metal decks for some of the DDs (I can think of the Asashios, Yugumos, and Akizukis) where the replacement rails and treaded deck are part of the set-up. I used a Yugumo rail set part for my Kazegumo build because the Aoshima full hull version of Isokaze (basis for the conversion) is molded poorly in this regard. While it certainly helped me out, I don't see that it adds much more in the case of a rail already molded in.

Now, Rainbow and Voyager, among others, actually make more realistic replacement rails with the support arches but, again, the result is over scale. Just my opinion regarding pain vs. payoff.


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PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 4:24 pm 
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Yes.... I am in a furious debate over the TT Rails.

I have finally gotten a tool to remove the tracks without disturbing the surrounding texture too much (and the Fujimi kits have very finely detailed deck texturing). The tool is a jewelers' chisel (It is about .25mm wide). They make them in a variety of sizes and shapes (I got a slightly cupped one that is .25mm wide).

And I might not even use it, considering that some of the rails cannot even be replaced (they do not provide a part for them). I suppose that I could buy a Rainbow PE set for JUST the TT Rails (since I am pretty sure they make one). But it bites that they don't include parts for all of the things on the kit they want you to hack off to replace with PE.

I should be working on these by June (when the SF, Laffey, and Farenholt will be completed).

MB

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1/700 (All Fall 1942):
HIJMS Nagara
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USS San Francisco
USS Helena
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USS Laffey & Farenholt
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 4 - 7
HIJMS Sub-Chasers No. 13 - 16


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PostPosted: Wed May 04, 2016 10:38 am 
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The other thing to keep in mind is that, excepting some pass through archs to allow for water runoff, only the outermost rail had support arches. The innermost rail is mostly flat affixed to the deck. The decks had a certain degree of camber in order to aid with water runoff. The outer trolley rail was raised slightly to compensate for the loss of height so as to keep the rails level.

Clearly, this assymetrical feature is not practical to replicate in1/700 or 1/350.

An unscientific examination of some photos makes it seem like the inner rails might be 3-4 inches high, outer rails 5-6 inches high. I'm comparing it to sailors' shoes. Just a guesstimate.

I understand the temptation to replace the rails but, truthfully, IMHO, one wouldn't even be able to see it in 1/700, save for digital photography.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 12:32 pm 
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While looking at the picture of Samidare's funnel and AA gun before the war, I noticed that AA gun is surrounded by railing covered in canvas instead of solid steel cover, as it would seem from Fujimi's mold. Were double 25mm guns in early war period also covered only by canvas stretched on railings?

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kindly requested are plastic HMS Lion in any scale, and Kinugasa in 1:350.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:26 pm 
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As far as the DDs go, NONE of the twin or triple 25mm AA emplacement positions were metal shielded until some of the latter Yugumos and Matsu/Tachibana ships. Decades ago, particularly with the original waterline consortium 1/700 kits, the manufacturers either misconstrued, or chose to mold, the canvas covered railings in a solid form. What you see on the kits today is a continuation of that practice. Some of the newer kits no longer carry solid sides, but, obviously, not all.


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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 2:51 pm 
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I see. Well, such depiction makes sense if one does not upgrade his kit with PE, so then he can simply paint the cover in white.

Actually, here comes another question that bothered me for a while now: was this canvas white, or maybe a bit greyish/brownish? I would place my bet that they were initially white, but worn out due to weather conditions and then turn into more "interesting" colours. The canvas looks much whiter in pre-war photos than on many photos of IJN ships during the war, what could be explained by the fact that during war nobody bothered maintaining a piece of canvas when there was a war to fight in.

Plus, when JMSDF arrived to Poland three years ago, I saw that canvas on their ships was snow white, but I don't know if that counts as a proper research material :big_grin:

Dan, thank you for help here and in my WIP topic, as always it is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Filip

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To all kits manufacturers reading this:
kindly requested are plastic HMS Lion in any scale, and Kinugasa in 1:350.

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PostPosted: Sat May 07, 2016 7:10 pm 
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You are most welcome, Filip.

Your suppositions are mostly correct. As equipped, the canvas was bleached white until sometime in 1942. Probably because of concerns over visibility, and perhaps to conserve resources, raw canvas became the norm and then, later on it seems it was dyed or painted a darker color. There is no certainty as to whether the color was a brown or a grey.

Regardless, it's certainly true that the canvas would see wear and fading over the course of a long voyage.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 12:09 pm 
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One of our sharp-eyed compadres (Lee Young) has noticed that the Fujimi kit hull has another minor error. On the kit, the flat, triangular hull area at the aft end of the forecastle deck shows five portholes on both the port and starboard sides. The photographic record shows that the arrangements were assymmetrical for all the ships - five to starboard, three to port. You'll have to fill two on the port side and remove the eyebrows. Not a big deal.


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Kawakaze, unknown location, Jentschura,  sm.jpg
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Umikaze, gunnery practice, 1937, Nihon no Gunkan v11 sm.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:56 pm 
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The pic labeled "Kawakaze, unknown location, Jentschura, sm.jpg" is not Kawakaze. Based on the katakana markings, it's Yudachi. Compare the hull markings of that vessel with the hull markings of the ship in the pic right below it. The one below IS Kawakaze.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 31, 2016 11:57 am 
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Sharp eyes, and good for you. You are correct about the first labeled Kawakaze photo. It is Yudachi, and a closer viewing of the bridge shows it to be a square bridge, not round bridge, type.

That's what happens when you take the supposedly reliable source (Jentschura) at face value.

:Mad_6:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 01, 2016 6:44 am 
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Thanks, Dan!

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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:41 pm 
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Dan K wrote:
Harusame received a Yugumo style bridge when rebuilt (and, as sunk). She became a hybrid of sorts.


I've been scrolling through this topic for hundreds of times now, but I somehow missed this one.
Was Harusame the only hybrid like this?
And is there any theory as to why did they make such a hybrid DD?

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To all kits manufacturers reading this:
kindly requested are plastic HMS Lion in any scale, and Kinugasa in 1:350.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 9:08 pm 
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Fivi_1241 wrote:
Dan K wrote:
Harusame received a Yugumo style bridge when rebuilt (and, as sunk). She became a hybrid of sorts.


I've been scrolling through this topic for hundreds of times now, but I somehow missed this one.
Was Harusame the only hybrid like this?
And is there any theory as to why did they make such a hybrid DD?

Harusame was torpedoed and lost her bow forward of the first stack, including her original bridge. When the replacement bow was added, her new bridge followed the pattern of the later DD's then under construction. Shiranuhi of the Kagero class also lost her bow forward of the first stack but unlike Harusame, there are no clear photos to confirm what style of bridge she received when rebuilt.


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PostPosted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:34 am 
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Given the date of Harusame's reconstruction, and the shape of the rear of the bridge, she received a late war version of the Yugumo bridge. Probably a Model D turret as well for #1 mount.


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PostPosted: Tue May 09, 2017 7:07 am 
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I see, that seems to solve the case. Thanks, guys!

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To all kits manufacturers reading this:
kindly requested are plastic HMS Lion in any scale, and Kinugasa in 1:350.

Thanks in advance.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 4:21 pm 
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So I picked up the Fujimi Shiratsuyu boxing. This is the one that has Shiratsuyu/Harusame (an AA platform in front of the bridge and 25mm guns for each side of the funnel). I'd like to build these as Shiratsuyu and Shigure in 1942 (as escorts during the Coral Sea operation). I gather the platform in front of the bridge wasn't there. Any idea what would be on the funnel wings at this point in time?

(On another note, is there a really good reference for these? I've gone through this thread which seems to be the best online reference, so thanks for the contributions from everyone. I've chased TROMs which help identifying when refits happened but unclear about what happened during the refit).

Thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 8:46 pm 
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It's possible that these ships still had the single 40mms in place to either side of funnel #2 in May, 1942. There's just not enough information available about their fit at that time.

There's no single good reference for this class that I'm aware of. Everything I've gathered is pieced together from a variety of sources, and it' still far from complete. Some of the Japanese modeling books do a decent job of charting changes to fit.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 9:26 pm 
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Thanks, Dan. If not the single 40s, then would they have already installed a 25mm mount? Triple mount?


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 09, 2017 10:36 pm 
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They would be twins. Not to make it more difficult for you, but there is a chance that twin 13mms may have been emplaced first. However, this is nothing solid in the record to contradict twin 25mms.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:36 am 
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Hmm...from what I can find online both here on this site and other searches, there doesn't seem to be a 1/350 kit of any Shiratsuyu class destroyer, specifically the Shigure.

I'm hoping I'm wrong.

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