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 Post subject: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Wed Sep 27, 2017 8:37 am 
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Hello all :wave_1:

This has been discussed earlier in the "Resin propeller" thread, but it seemed to have been deleted a long while ago, so we'll continue it here. You might have seen the 3D print Tirpitz screws on our build thread. Those were designed (and rescaled according to our request) by a designer on Shapeways going by the name lonenwalze. Now we are able to create our own design after numerous trials and errors using the 123D design software. Below are some pics of the recently finished Iowa-class BB screw set, available in 1/350 scale on our Shapeways shop. We'll try to do more of these for other ship classes, but since the schedule is rather full, we might not be able to complete designs in timely manner. Anyway, let us know if you're interested in any screw design, and if possible, provide accurate informations like drawings, plans, and dimensional measurements (pitch, outer diameter, etc.).
We might also be making sets for major ship classes (apart from the already available Bismarck and Iowa) the Yamato, KGV, Fletcher, Hood, Essex, etc., so if anyone knows of any good info resource on those, we'd be appreciated to have them.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Regards,
Aop & Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:02 am 
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Ooooh Aup & Aur,

You make my mouth water with these new designs for the Iowa class! I support you completely on this.

Did EJ succeed in coming up with more detailed design parameters for these screws, or was it done by eyeballing the missing info?

And for new designs: I think there might be a demand for the (nuke) supercarriers, Enterprise, Nimitz class, and the older Kittyhawks etc. What do you think about these?

Cheers,
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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:22 am 
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Very nicely done!

For those that might not be aware, accurately recreating the complex geometry of a screw is extremely difficult to achieve using 123D Design software. This is quite a technical achievement.

Excellent.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:02 pm 
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Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
Ooooh Aup & Aur,

You make my mouth water with these new designs for the Iowa class! I support you completely on this.

Did EJ succeed in coming up with more detailed design parameters for these screws, or was it done by eyeballing the missing info?

And for new designs: I think there might be a demand for the (nuke) supercarriers, Enterprise, Nimitz class, and the older Kittyhawks etc. What do you think about these?

Cheers,
Maarten


Hi Maarten,

Thanks a lot for the kind words and support! I see you've ordered from our shop. :big_grin: Apart from the trial document EJ posted on the old thread, there seems to be nothing else available, but that's fine, because all necessary information is already in the document. The only completely unknown measurement is the hub diameter, but since this is meant to fit the Tamiya kits, there's no problem with taking measurements from the kit parts. The cap shape is eyeballed from a few side-view photos. Note also that the 4-bladed outboard screws are larger than the inboard 5-bladed ones in diameter by more than a foot (around 1 cm in 1/350), and also have greater pitch.


 
ModelMonkey wrote:
Very nicely done!

For those that might not be aware, accurately recreating the complex geometry of a screw is extremely difficult to achieve using 123D Design software.  This is quite a technical achievement.

Excellent.


Thanks for the compliment, Steve! Indeed it's very diffcult to recreate the complexity of a screw in 123D Design, which has very limited CAD capability. With the helpful explainations and suggestions of Maarten, I was able to incorporate the nature of the screw into the design, and that is the helical surface (much like the Archimedes screw). Thanks Maarten!

As for new designs, nuclear supercarriers sound interesting indeed. I'll just have to get some information for them, like I had for the Iowas'. I can't seem to find any detail of the Enterprise screws, but from photos they look very similar, if not the same, to those of the Nimitz and Kitty Hawk classes.

Image

There's also a new screw design that replaced some Nimitz-class ships in around 2010, and is also used on the new Gerald R. Ford:

Image

I'll do some more research about this. If anyone has a good resource then let me know as well.

Cheers,
Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 11:16 am 
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:wave_1:

The 3D printed Iowa-class screw set just arrived two days ago, and they look quite nice in the flesh. Here are some shots of the parts after some basic cleaning. I'll eventually need to give them a coat of primer and some fine sanding, like I did with the Tirpitz screws. A few very small flaws in the design become invisible at such small size. Note, however, that the blades are extremely thin (even thinner than those of Tirpitz), and I had to be very careful handling them while cleaning.

Image

Image

Image

A comparison with the Bismarck-class set (designed by lonenwalze)

Image

These sets can be found on our Shapeways shop, Aop_Aur

Cheers,
Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:53 pm 
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Just curious. Did you check to see if they would print in brass?
Dave


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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:35 am 
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You can already print your propellers in actual brass in full scale:

http://www.damen.com/en/news/2017/09/3d ... completion

We had a few experiments with printing model scale propellers (100-250 mm) that come with a smooth coating, but they do not yet meet our required tolerances (<0.05mm deviation).

Wonder how these Iowa propellers turn out after a coat of paint.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:43 am 
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davidwaples wrote:
Just curious. Did you check to see if they would print in brass?
Dave


For the current design, the blades are too thin for brass/bronze materials. The design would need modifications like blade thickening, edge rounding, and sometimes the shaft holes need to be resized, in order to meet Shapeways' metal printing requirement. It will look something like this render of the Tirpitz set (modified by lonenwalze himself):

Image

The design would lose its sharp edges and the thicker blades make it look less realistic, so I don't think it's the best idea to do screws in brass/bronze. Of course it's a different story for larger scales (see lonenwalze's 1/200 Bismarck screws in brass: http://shpws.me/GoMy)

@EJFoeth, interesting experiments with the large scale 3D print screw. The CNC milling will remove all those roughness on the surfaces and edges, right?
I'll try to primer and sand the Iowa screws as soon as I could. I'm happy with the thinness of the blades, although great care must be taken when handling them.

Cheers,
Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:49 am 
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Aur wrote:
The CNC milling will remove all those roughness on the surfaces and edges, right?


Yes, otherwise it would be a great mixer, but not a propeller :smallsmile:


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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:36 pm 
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Yes, you can print brass (and BRONZE) props at Shapeways.

I printed and machined these for large scale R/C... finish is as-delivered, big one is about 2.75" dia.; brass on left, bronze on right.

These have accurate blade shapes from original 1920's blue prints, as used on small fishing boats.


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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 3:42 am 
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PATMAT wrote:
Yes, you can print brass (and BRONZE) props at Shapeways.

I printed and machined these for large scale R/C... finish is as-delivered, big one is about 2.75" dia.; brass on left, bronze on right.

These have accurate blade shapes from original 1920's blue prints, as used on small fishing boats.

Hi PATMAT, at that dimension it's quite OK, just like Aur mentioned before: 1/200 Bismarck screws will be around 1 inch diameter, but the examples of Tirpitz and Iowa shown in this thread are only about 0.5 inch...

I received my Iowa class examples from Shapeways two days ago, and I'm delighted about them. Very fine indeed, even better than the Bismarck/Tirpitz ones. Thanks a lot Aur for your good work!

I will try collect some data I gathered about those carrier screws, diameter, pitch etcetera, if these dimensions are known the design should be a simple adaptation from the Iowa's. I think...

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 11:27 am 
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:wave_1:

My brother and I have been busy over the past week with tests, recordings, and another trip to the US for our auditions. We're going to get even busier, since we have the SAT coming in 2 days. Anyway, I've just had a bit of time to lightly smooth the surface of the Iowa screws with 800 grit sandpaper, and primer them (slightly oversprayed for later polishing). I would need to do more sanding with progressively finer grits.

Image
Image

I'll try to post more when I have time.
Cheers :wave_1:
Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Nov 30, 2017 2:30 pm 
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They look superb, Aur!

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 6:40 pm 
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:wave_1:

We've been very busy for the past month with our piano audition preparations, and the auditions themselves that were done 4 days ago here in Bloomington, Indiana. The entire process was very tiring, so we hope we'll be given the good opportunity from the University this time.

The Iowa screws were left to collect dust for the whole month, so I decided to finish the refining stages to be able to finally paint them when we return to Thailand tomorrow.

The primed surfaces were sanded to almost bare resin:

Image

With another coat of primer and 2000 grit sanding, the screws were done and ready for the snow....

Image

The next step would be the same as what I did to the Tirpitz screws - a black base coat, followed by bronze and gold colours, and perhaps weathering.
We still need to "buy these screws an Iowa-class kit" (weird enough! :heh:) , so we'll have to wait and see how it'll end up looking like with the future build.

I'm planning to create a scaled up version in 1/200 for 3D printing as well, since the Trumpeter kit parts don't look so good. That would have even thinner blades and finer detail as the scale allows, but I'll have to find the time to make the adjustments.

I'm also experimenting with HMS Hood screw, but so far the required data is not yet sufficient for a good outcome. The supercarrier screw is also lacking necessary info to begin work. As always, if anyone has any useful data for these screws or any other, please share!


Cheers, and Happy new year!

Aur

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1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Nice job Aur :thumbs_up_1: , those propellers look really beautiful

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Miguel wrote:
Nice job Aur :thumbs_up_1: , those propellers look really beautiful

Thanks for the compliment, Miguel! I hope they would make good replacements for the kit parts.

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:51 pm 
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Hi all :wave_1:

I've created a rescaled version of the Iowa screws in 1/200 a while ago, and thought I should post it here. Thanks to the microfilm extract posted by Bigjimslade in the CASF thread, I was able to redesign a more accurate hub. I've also redone the blades to fit the new hub, as well as minimizing minor issues here and there.

Design screenshot:

Image

Shapeways render (Frosted detail plastic):

Image

I tried thickening the blades and putting sprues on each pair (reducing shell count), and the model passed Shapeways' precious metal requirements.

Polished brass render:

Image

Polished bronze render:

Image

Although these look quite good, their price is very high as a result of the complicated process of metal printing, which can be read here: https://www.shapeways.com/materials/bronze

Bronze models are fabricated using a complex five-step process. First, the model is printed in wax using a specialized high-resolution 3D Printer. It is then put in a container where liquid plaster is poured in around it. Once the plaster sets, the wax is melted out in a furnace, and the remaining plaster becomes the mold.

Molten bronze is poured into this mold and hardens quickly. The plaster is broken away, revealing your model. Raw Bronze is briefly tumbled. Polished Bronze is carefully cleaned and hand-polished. Please be aware that polishing can wear down very fine details and edges.


I've also scaled the set back to 1/350 to update the product, and it involved quite a bit of work.

Render:

Image

All these items can be found on our Shapeways shop by the name Aop_Aur

My next project on the line could be a screw set for the North Carolina-class battleship, which I already have the necessary data (pitch and diameter). I would be able to draft the blade outline from photos, and the same thing goes for the hub profile if there is no available drawings for it. Since there's not a lot of resource for these ships on the internet, I would appreciate anyone providing photos, drawings, or any sort of references for this.


Cheers!

Aur

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:35 am 
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Hi Aur,

your propellers look very good. :thumbs_up_1: I know how dificult it is to design nice propellers.
I've done several test prints at shapeways too, all designed with Blender. (My main field of interest is the german imperial navy)

Currently I'm waiting for my first print in in HP Nylon (PA12).

Strong & Flexible is too rough and weak, in my opinion.

I was impressed of the "raw brass" and "frosted extreme detail" quality. :woo_hoo:



In my small blog I've described my approach (in german but google translation works well :cool_1: )
3dnavy.blogspot

Robert

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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:34 am 
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3dnavy wrote:
Hi Aur,

your propellers look very good. :thumbs_up_1: I know how dificult it is to design nice propellers.
I've done several test prints at shapeways too, all designed with Blender. (My main field of interest is the german imperial navy)

Currently I'm waiting for my first print in in HP Nylon (PA12).

Strong & Flexible is too rough and weak, in my opinion.

I was impressed of the "raw brass" and "frosted extreme detail" quality. :woo_hoo:



In my small blog I've described my approach (in german but google translation works well :cool_1: )
3dnavy.blogspot

Robert

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the kind compliment, and the link to your excellent blog! :thumbs_up_1:
Marine propellers are indeed a difficult subject to model, and designing an accurate one requires a lot of researching, plus a good CAD software. I've been using Autodesk's new Fusion 360 program for a while, and it is a huge improvement over the old 123D Design. However, I'm still unable to replicate the non-constant blade thickness feature, resulting from the lack of very detailed cross-sectional drawings. But at scales like 1/200 - 1/350, the minimal printable thickness would already surpass the thickest blade sections.


Cheers,

Aur

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1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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 Post subject: Re: 3D print screws
PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2018 11:51 am 
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After getting used to the new Fusion 360 software, I tackled the North Carolina-class screw design with a good amount of references obtained through dozens of internet searching and pictures provided by Maarten. :thumbs_up_1:
Below are some renders of the design, generated by the Fusion 360 itself:

Image

Outboard LH 4-blader:
Image

Inboard LH 5-blader:
Image

Shapeways' render in frosted detail plastic material:
Image

Note that this design is specific to the North Carolina-class battleships, and differ from those of the Iowa and South Dakota in every elements (measurements, pitches, shapes, etc.) I would be doing a design for the SoDaks once I figure out the accurate and suitable configuration (there are many!)

This item can be found on our Shapeways shop, recently renamed 3D Shipwright.

Aur

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1/350 Tamiya DKM Tirpitz Nov 1944

1/350 scratch-build HMS Lion never built battleship (1938)

Completed build:
1/350 AFV Club Japanese Submarine I-58

And our artworks!


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