The Ship Model Forum

Looks like they did use rods for cleaning.

But why was then the tube not present earlier in the war? When the 20.3 cm guns were already present? And when did she got paravanes?

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How about that!? And the picture also shows what might be the boom for the paravanes.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

These tubes contained the barrels for sub-caliber firing. If I'm mot mistaken, the used 8.8cm barrels for the 20.3cm guns...

Happy ~ Olaf!

Not on top, but inside the 20.3-barrel...


Happy ~ Olaf!

To be honest, I have no idea. But I know there was/is a technical regulation for what they have called "Abkommschießen" (sub-calibre firing). Something of that kind could have been carried out by other navies, too.

And if you find 8.8 barrels to be too heavy-weighted, guess what they have inserted into Bismarck's and Tirpitz' 38-cm-barrels...

EDIT: The above sentence is rubbish. Actually, it was the 8.8 that was inserted into the 38cm. What they have used on the Hipper class' 20.3 is now unclear to me. Obviously something smaller... hehehe...


Happy ~ Olaf!

I wouldn't say I know everything about the Prinz Eugen, but those canisters were the cleaning rods.




Joe Hoffman

Since there were eight canisters, this would mean that each of the eight barrels would have had its own canister for cleaning rods, just in case you would need to clean them all at once.

If only I could find the source for that sub-caliber firing thing. I only recall JK's books on Bismarck, in which he stated this. And since all major capital ships had those canisters in the direct vincinity of the turrets...


Happy ~ Olaf!

I have been following this thread and I am not clear what you mean by "sub-caliber firing." It sounds like you are saying that they inserted a smaller caliber barrel into a larger caliber gun.

Given the dynamics involved in firing a gun I can't see how that would work. The smaller caliber barrel would be relatively very thin metal. The pressure of the powder charge explosion would cause it to expand and jam in the larger gun barrel. Then you wouldn't be able to remove it without replacing the larger gun barrel.

You are talking about putting an 88 mm (inner) barrel into a 380 mm inside diameter barrel? That is a tube almost 380 mm diameter with a wall thickness of 146 mm and as long as the larger gun barrel. That would weigh tons and is not something you could man handle into place. It would require a fairly large crane and some kind of carriage to transport the barrel. Sounds pretty silly to me.

****

The US Navy (and other navies) used a technique called "sabot" where a smaller caliber projectile is carried in a larger caliber fitting (the sabot). The sabot is a low mass material, and the smaller projectile is less massive than the ordinary larger diameter projectile. Consequently, when the sabot projectile is fired with the normal powder charge for the larger diameter gun it is accelerated to a higher velocity than it would have in the smaller caliber gun. This gives it a significantly greater range than a larger caliber projectile would have in the same gun. The sabot falls away after the projectile leaves the gun barrel.

This technique goes back to the early 1800s. The US Navy used this technique to fire 5" caliber projectiles from 8" guns during the Vietnam war. I think (not certain) I recall that this gave the 5" projectiles a range of about 20-25 miles, as opposed to the 10 mile range of the 5"/38 gun.

Phil

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A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle

I think Olaf is talking about a kind of sub-caliber firing, which was used for training. Sometimes an additional gun barrel was lashed on top of the normal barrel.

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Yes, for training purposes, and to reduce wear of the precious barrels and of course, to save costs.

@ Phil ~ That is a very good point, re: pressure inside the barrel. Now, either inside or on top, I need to find that source. Maybe it's noted in Bismarck's AVKS report...


Happy modelling ~ Olaf!

Just out of curiosity. Where would I get a good set of plans for the Prinz Eugen? Something I could use to build a RC model. Looking for now, to build 1/72
Just need a link for now.

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Building
1/72 Admiral Kuznetsov
1/72 Frunze Russian Battle cruiser
1/72 Steregushchy-class corvette

Mick
Tumut Australia

Thank you

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Building
1/72 Admiral Kuznetsov
1/72 Frunze Russian Battle cruiser
1/72 Steregushchy-class corvette

Mick
Tumut Australia

Not mine.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/162752008208

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Darren (Admiral Hawk)
In the not so tropical climate of the Great White North.

Started to build Trumpeter's Prinz E and have a question regarding the hull - these recessed areas that I've marked on the pictures, are they correct? Looking at pictures of her, I can't see them, but it's maybe just the quality of old photos that makes them invisible.

Risto

The Recesses do show up in a few photos, however the fwd one seems about twice as deep as it should be.

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Darren (Admiral Hawk)
In the not so tropical climate of the Great White North.

a few years ago I painted this scene depicting Prinz Eugen & Bismarck shortly after the Denmark Strait action.. apologies if it's old news but perhaps a few people here may enjoy seeing it.

Regards, Joseph

Hello all, I wrote a long post a couple of days ago but i guess I failed to post it correctly so I will keep this one short.
As far as we know, the proper colors of the Prinz Eugen during the channel dash (Cerberus) and just afterwards with the dark hull strips (sportpalast?)
I have read so many conflicting reports as to colors used and the various paint charts/chips are all very different from each other yet claim to be the same color.
Also in general did the german grey's tend to have a bluish hue or was it more often a straight gray?
So far I have...
light gray superstructure... hellgrau 50?
medium gray hull...dunkelgrau 51 OR mittelgrau
Dark blue gray dapple & stripes on superstructure... dunkelblaugrau OR dunkelgrau 52
And dark gray hull strips (after dash)... dunkelblaugrau OR dunkelgrau 52

a color image that you believe is closest is more than welcome.

Thank you all for your input,
Harry

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I battle 1:144 combat warships, yes they shoot & yes they sink. (and yes they are back on the water in minutes). Would you like to know more?
http://www.modelwarshipcombat.com/
http://www.scrapcombatships.com/

Slowly progressing with my Prinz, now I'm wondering what for these booms are? And how are they vertically controlled? In the first picture it looks like a solid rod, but that wouldn't work unless its telescopic. It also looks to be attched not to end of the boom as in pic two but closer to halfway. Any help much appreciated!

- Risto

It is a protection for the external propeller. Also, the German battleships had it. They were controlled with ropes and probably a cable tensor and / or winch on deck.

The drawing is from Tirpitz, but I think that other major german warships were similar.