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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 12:52 pm 
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Here's the post & picture Dick's referencing.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Actually, I have my own scan of the same photo and am going to post it here as the navigation level isn't covered in text:

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This photo is dated April 13. She reports embarking 14 F2As of VMF-311 for transportation to NAS Palmyra on April 14 and standing out about 0900 on April 15.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:11 pm 
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I'm currently working on Meng's non-scale cartoon Lexington, and am wondering (as silly as it may seem for the subject type) what paint schemes are possible/likely with it.

It has the 8" guns without AA guns on top of them, but has the AA platform around the funnel. It comes with F4F, SBD, and TBD aircraft. If it weren't for the aircraft, it'd put it squarely in the late-1930s, 1940 period, and the suggested peacetime paint scheme (though they have you use deck blue instead of mahogany) certainly suggest so. But were those aircraft embarked at all during this period? If not, what would be some of the more obvious structural changes that'll have to be done to "allow" the use of the included aircraft?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 6:49 pm 
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One problem you're going to have is that her air group had F2A Buffalos until late January, 1942. I have one sort-of in progress (messed up the masking of the deck lines and haven't had the interest in stripping everything on the flight deck down and starting over on the yellow) and decided that it's "lexington-ish" I was just going to do a pre-war paint scheme since it's prettier any way and not worry about the details so much.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Dang! Maybe I'll just slap on a PE CXAM-1 and skip the turrettop AA and do the wartime scheme. I don't have any yellow paint anyway. Do we know if she had the MS-5 bow wave in the month between getting F4Fs and removal of the 8" turrets?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 8:29 pm 
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My guess is no false bow wave - she has it in October 1941 on the way out of San Diego, but note that the paint on her hull is badly chalked and probably washed away (the 5-D they were using at the time was a mixture of pre-war #5 gray and black, which lead to adhesion problems). As the false bow wave was effectively obsolete at that time I'm pretty sure when she repainted they would have left it off.

Just a guess though.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:12 pm 
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Can someone pass along the current thinking about the locations of the various components of the gun fire control systems as LEX left PH in April '42.
For the 5"/25 mounts, how many directors and what type were there, and where were they physically located? (I assume one director for each group of three.) But I know there is discussion including here about replacing the removed 8" directors after the turrets themselves were removed and putting 5" director(s) in their place. So, were there something like two MK19 directors placed on the upper platform where the two-part 8" directors were? To me, the picture Tracy posted above looks like at least one box structure is located on that platform nearest to the camera (toward the outer platform edge) that could be a director like a Mk19. If one or more 5" directors were in that location, one to port and one to starboard, where there two more aft of the stack on one of the platforms there?
I think I read somewhere that all the quad 1.1" mounts were unpowered, would that also mean none of them had directors either at that time. If that's not correct, where were the 1.1" directors located physically.
Finally, I do agree there seems to be a radar antenna above the roof of the Flag Plot and aft of the optical rangefinder on the FP roof. Is that the only FC radar antenna (assuming it is an FC radar.
Finally, can any post pictures of the Mk16 and Mk19 gun directors? I have been unable to get much in the way of pictures of the various late-peace / early-war gun directors. I get lots of Mk33 and later info, or Cold War stuff, but not this era.
I know LEX is still a mystery in some areas even after the information we've seen in the past few years, so I'm OK with an educated quess. I put LEX aside as a model project some years back when there was still some significant questions as to what the bridge structure looked like. I took my best swing - which actually turned out to be really close - but held off actually cementing things together and onto the model knowing full well that would be when pictures would show up showing me to be way wrong. I am laying out a plan to get back on that horse and want to clarify a few things with the collective wisdom here.
John

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:57 pm 
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The Lexingtons were built with 4 sets of MK-19 directors. I use the word "sets" because there were 2 components to each set. The main part of the director may be seen in this shot of Northampton.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/026/0402626.jpg
The second element was a rangefinder (with a periscope) that was later fitted on that vacant rounded protrusion just aft of Northampton's MK-19 main element. Lexington carried these sets, unmodified, to the end. 2 sets were on the fore top with the main elements toward the center and the rangefinders outboard, on the "wings" of the top. The other 2 sets were on the top platform on the back side of the stack. The MK-19 main elements were closer to the stack with the rangefinders aft of them. There were plans to combine the elements, as was done on the Northamptons and Pensacolas, but that was never done on Lex. Later plans to use MK-33 directors were also not implemented. Only Saratoga got upgraded directors, MK-37's in 1942.

None of Lexington's 1.1's had directors. The only MK-3 (FC) radar was installed on the former 8" control station above and behind the big rangefinder. I am not sure what you are referencing when you talk about the "box structure".


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:34 am 
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Dick -
Thanks, that answers most of my questions.
The "box structure" I refer to looks like the back side of an enclosed director - sort of like a Mk37, but not really a Mk37 since LEX had none - just a similar shape. Model Monkey hmakes a Mk19 (enclosed) director in his non-Shapeways catalogue and it kinda looked to me like the back side of that.
That said, looking at page 99 of Stern, there is a picture of the optical portion of the Mk19 which is missing in your NORTHAMPTON photo. Looking back carefully at a number of photos of LEX, including the last good picture before the explosions and a couple with the wisps of smoke, the vertical periscope can be seen in the four locations you mention. Hadn't really seen that before. But the rest of the Mk19 system seems to be enclosed in splinter shields or something similar. So I am wondering if the non-optical portion of the MK19 on LEX after the war started looks like the Model Monkey Mk19 director. I sure hope so from a modeling perspective. Duplicating the director in your NORTHAMPTON photo would be a challenge.
Thanks for helping me home in.
John

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:00 pm 
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Unfortunately, the MK-19's you need are the ones in the Northampton photo, but sitting in a tub. The only MK-19's I saw on the Model Monkey site were the modified (combined) ones I mentioned previously, as seen in this photo of the Salt Lake City (above the open bridge): http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/025/0402523.jpg
These modified units, which were about the size of the later MK-37's, were carried by the Pensacola's, the Northampton's and the Pearl Harbor battle line. They were not on the Lexington. They were essentially the original Mk-19 main director mounted in a rotating box shared with a new rangefinder (wider base and without the periscope). I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:44 pm 
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Dick -
Thanks. Of course I was hoping for a different answer. But thanks for the help.
John

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:01 pm 
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Hello. Who can help with boats?

As I understood the Booklet of General Plans 26 March 1936 contains a number of errors

Left side. Starting from the stern. In the photo before 1936:

-50 ft motor launch on main deck

beside funnel
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor launch

beside superstructure
-two 26 ft motor whale boats

after 1937:

-50 ft motor launch on main deck

beside funnel
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat ????
-40 ft motor launch at flight deck level

beside superstructure
-two 26ft motor whale boats

all boat and launch as in http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/boatsca ... 2-1955.pdf

Am I right or not?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:09 pm 
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Dick J wrote:
I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.


Campbell, John. Naval Weapons of World War Two, p.109?


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:20 pm 
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sas1975kr wrote:
Dick J wrote:
I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.


Campbell, John. Naval Weapons of World War Two, p.109?


I think he meant there is no source of aftermarket model parts of the original non enclosed MK 19 directors as seen on the Northampton class CA’s and Lexington class CV’s in the early thirties.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 9:53 am 
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One thing for my build (I'm backdating the 1/350 Saratoga back to the 1934 version of the Lexington) that I've been trying to figure out is what lies behind the openings along the hull side that in the plan book are listed as exhaust trunks. I'm assuming that there is some kind of chain barrier to keep the crew on the inside. . . In one of the pictures in David Doyle's book there is a shot of crewmen in them so it doesn't seem like its full of machinery. Currently I'm thinking I'll blank them off with small plastruct compartments and put PE railing across them similarly to what they have at the stern doors for the machinery shops. However if anyone actually knows what the heck is behind those please let me know!


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:11 pm 
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I can't answer WHAT is behind these opening, but I can offer a couple of close crop images taken in 1938 (first image is dated 28 April 1938) and 1939 (second image is dated 28 January 1939) of USS LEXINGTON. It appears that these openings had doors that could be closed (one from below and one from above?).

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 1:30 pm 
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MattFlegal wrote:
One thing for my build (I'm backdating the 1/350 Saratoga back to the 1934 version of the Lexington) that I've been trying to figure out is what lies behind the openings along the hull side that in the plan book are listed as exhaust trunks. I'm assuming that there is some kind of chain barrier to keep the crew on the inside. . . In one of the pictures in David Doyle's book there is a shot of crewmen in them so it doesn't seem like its full of machinery. Currently I'm thinking I'll blank them off with small plastruct compartments and put PE railing across them similarly to what they have at the stern doors for the machinery shops. However if anyone actually knows what the heck is behind those please let me know!


The openings in the sides are for the intake ducts. The go down to the hangar deck then through dampers to boiler rooms the ducts are labeled "air duct B-1" through "air duct B-16" and each go down to the forced draft blowers for the 16 boilers. If you look at the plan layout of the decks you will see dampers that go off to the different areas.

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Our CO prior to flying to the boomer: “Our goals on this patrol is to shoot missiles and torpedoes.”
Junior Nuke Officer (me) : “Captain, don’t we really want to be like Monty Python and ‘Not be seen’?”
CO “You seem to be missing the big picture”
“Oh”


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:27 am 
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Thanks! I think I'll blank them off behind with Plastruct channel and put generic PE railing across them. It looks like the sailors are draping their legs over some sort of barrier at the least.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:02 pm 
[quote="Rick E Davis"]I can't answer WHAT is behind these opening, but I can offer a couple of close crop images taken in 1938 (first image is dated 28 April 1938) and 1939 (second image is dated 28 January 1939) of USS LEXINGTON. It appears that these openings had doors that could be closed (one from below and one from above?).

Yes. It can be clearly seen on Sara. All divided into two parts. First four are exceptions
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/history/nhhc/our-collections/photography/numerical-list-of-images/nhhc-series/nh-series/19-N-29000/19-N-29686.html

Nice foto. I would like to find a photo after 1940 with such quality :(


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:36 pm 
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I will say as I go down this path that thank God for Shapeways! The various pieces from ModelMonkey are excellent, the funnel is a work of art. Trys Bennet is very kindly doing the 1934 airwing and the first two are beautiful, The kit planes aren't great anyways but compared to these there isn't a comparison.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/XRFCS ... d=95793103
https://www.shapeways.com/product/P4F3X ... d=95794087


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