Calling all Russian submarine fans

[Intreno]

I have found this site (in russian) with several interesting photos about project 705 / 705K Lyra

https://vova-91.livejournal.com/3669608.html

[Tom Dougherty]

Interesting web site in Russian about the Borey class. Lots of interesting photos as well.

http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-338.html

[Intreno]

After 18 months my 1/350 diorama with one Viktor III (Hobby Boss) and one Alpha (Hobby Boss) docking (scratch built) is over.
I sent the whole images for the gallery last week for publishing. Attached the fin of the Viktor III, dirty and in moving waters.

[Tom Dougherty]

I just received the MicroMir Papa class SSGN (K-222) & Mike class (K-278, Komsomolets) SSN kits in 1/350. The K-222 Papa class was the experimental, one off, high speed cruise missile submarine with a titanium hull. She is noted as having reached the highest submerged speed of any submarine to date, 44.7 kts. Due to the cost and other issues (excessive noise at high speed, shedding of external hull pieces at high speed) she was in limited use and was retired early after reactor damage to one of her two PWR plants.

The Mike was the deep diving (1020 meters, 3350 feet) SSN design, again with a titanium hull. She was lost in 1989 when a fire broke out in an aft compartment, and ultimately sank with the loss of 42 of her 65 crew.

The two kits come in the distinct MicroMir light blue bordered boxes, with loose fitting lids. The parts are all sealed in a reclosable plastic bag. The kits feature a limited number of parts, small decal sets, and a small photo etch fret. Overall the scribing and other details look very accurate from the few photos available, and ballast tank flood vents are represented on the bottom of the hull (avoiding one of my pet peeves, submarine models without ballast tank flood vents). I have not as yet checked the parts fit, as I have some other kits to finish up before starting these.

One rather challenging aspect I discovered of both kits is the decision by MicroMir to make the photo etch propellers as individual blades. These will each need to be removed from the photo etch and glued (butt mount) on the propeller shafts. There are six blades on each of two prop shafts for the Papa class, and two tandem propeller sets of six, each mounted on one (very small) centerline shaft for the Mike. You would think that surely the mounting positions for the six individual blades and the mounting angle would be indicated. But then you would be wrong. What makes it doubly difficult is the lack of a lot of photo documentation on either of these unique submarines, particularly of the propeller areas. I would much rather have preferred a single six bladed photo etch piece to the task of trying to carefully measure and mount the six blades 60 degrees apart with superglue on a very (and I do mean very) small shaft surface. The joints themselves have a very limited surface contact area. Also, since you can't twist the blades a bit prior to installing as you can with a one piece photo etch propeller, you will have to guesstimate an angle to mount them on and get them to all look like the same angle. I think this will be a very frustrating exercise, and since these are straight "brass blades to plastic mounts with cyanoacrylate glue" jobs, it will be a very delicate build to pull off properly and look good. And you won't want anyone near the finished model to threaten the propeller constructions.

The Mike fret also has very small photo etch blades (I measured as 1 mm in length and 0.7 mm in width!) to be placed (2 each) on the maneuvering pods at the tips of the stern planes, for low speed maneuvering. Again, butt joints with no real guidance as to installation angles.

Also, a general comment: Am I the only one who finds flat, one dimensional photoetch propellers unconvincing on an otherwise detailed model? I have a couple of the older Pit Road Combat Subs resin kits. They came with white metal propellers, which had varying thicknesses and seem far more convincing than the 2 dimensional photo etch version.

[Neptune]

Papa class had 5-bladed props, but I do agree that PE props aren't exactly convincing. However, due to the conventional shape of the blades and the tiny dimentions you might get away with it.

Shrouds were only there for the covers during construction, this pic is from launch, so covers were removed, but shrouds still in place. They're not permanent nozzles like on Typhoon.

[Vepr157]

The Mike had an eight-bladed (2x four-bladed) tandem screw. Some Victor IIs, Victor IIIs, Charlies, and Oscar Is had the same screws, although the angle between the two sections seems to have varied between 20 and 45 degrees.

This is the Mike screw:

https://i.imgur.com/RinaZsr.jpg

and the similar Victor III screw:

https://i.imgur.com/xznyzvZ.jpg

Let me know if you need more photos for reference. I've got quite a few, although I can't find a great photo I had of one of these screws that's on display at a museum somewhere in Russia, taken with a color digital camera instead of the horrible Soviet black and white film.

Jacob

[Tom Dougherty]

Thanks to both of you for the information on the Papa and Mike class propellers. This means that the MicroMir photo etch propeller instructions are incorrect on both kits. So, I already had planned not to use the provided propeller blades, due to the previous issues I had listed with regard to the individual photo etch blades provided with the kits.

I still do not know how you could successfully mount the kit provided prop blades by butt joints on very small shaft at the proper angles and spacing. Poor part kit design.

[Vepr157]

What I did for the Mikromir Skate and Nautilus was to cut my own screws out of a thicker brass. With thicker brass you can actually curve and roughly contour each blade so they look a little more convincing than the flat and fragile screws that come with the kit. Seven-bladed skewback screws are basically impossible with this method, but for four and five non-skewback screws its relatively easy. You could cut out two four-bladed screws and put a little spacer in between to make the Mike's tandem screw.

Jacob

[FRAMSailor]

Not sure if it would help, but the Hobby Boss 1/350 Victor III comes with the option for the two (assume contra-rotating) and the more common one. In addition both options come in either brass (at least not but jointed!) or plastic.

[Tom Dougherty]

Thanks, I have the Victor kit and that is a great suggestion. I also have a set of brass screws in 1/350 from Flagship Models which have a 5 bladed version as well. Just out of curiosity, I checked on Shapeways and there are some printed 4 blade propellers that might be able to be doubled up for the Komsomolets (Mike class); they have them in several sizes and are inexpensive (and have real 3-D character to boot). So we have choices with these kits.

Trying to mount the kit provided brass blades individually on the shaft just looks like a modeling frustration waiting to happen. You'd get 80% done, drop it and knock 3 blades loose. Or, you would be transporting it to an IPMS event and 2 of the blades would come off. Repairing it at that point would be on par with doing eye surgery...

[FRAMSailor]

Ok, dumb question. While I believe some sources may show Russian World War II subs may painted green below the waterline, I have also seen some November and Hotel class submarine models also painted that way. It would look great if true, but am I correct in my assumption that they really should be either red or black?

[Tom Dougherty]

I always thought the green was weathering of the paint itself (which had copper in it), from immersion in salt water.

Like this: https://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jf ... ge3.jpg|||
and this: https://www.globalsecurity.org/jhtml/jf ... ge2.jpg|||

At one point, the US employed a green primer layer:
http://boomer.user-services.com/drydock ... 1-675.html

Black & red paint when over the primer. With wear, some of the primer would show.

[Vepr157]

Apparently the below-waterline paints for Soviet submarines in 1954 were green and brown. By 1965, the paints were red, red-brown, and brown. Apparently the green paint was less effective for anti-fouling than the red and brown paints. The K-3, for example, likely had red below the waterline when she was launched. My best guess is that the green coloration on Russian-made models is an anachronism that stems from the coloration of WWII Soviet submarines.

Jacob

[Tom Dougherty]

Apparently the below-waterline paints for Soviet submarines in 1954 were green and brown. By 1965, the paints were red, red-brown, and brown. Apparently the green paint was less effective for anti-fouling than the red and brown paints.

Reference for this?

[Vepr157]

Tom,

I found the discussion here: http://karopka.ru/forum/forum190/topic25900/

The guy building the model obtained documents, one from 1954 and one from 1965, that list the paint colors on Soviet submarines. I think it's accurate as I've never seen a Soviet/Russian submarine with green paint under the waterline, except for the green of marine growth (or possibly paint oxidation) that your Alfa photos show.

Jacob

[Guest]

Hello, Gentlemen!

I have a question. Does anyone have any experience with Polar Bear resin Soviet and Russian submarine kits?

Thanks!

Bill Morrison

[571Nautilus]

Hello, Gentlemen!

I have a question. Does anyone have any experience with Polar Bear resin Soviet and Russian submarine kits?

Thanks!

Bill Morrison

I have one, but not finished yet. A Victor I boat. It's nicely molded with metal parts and markings. Other people I know who've gotten them have been happy with them.

[Tom Dougherty]

I have their Hotel II and Golf II submarines. The resin is a dark brown, rather hard material. They provide a small plastic envelope with periscopes, propellers and other items, and a decal sheet. Overall, they appear to be very accurate from the drawings I have of both these classes. I recommend them.

There is a slight seam down the middle of the hull lengthwise that needs to be addressed carefully with sanding so as not to obliterate details. One thing that I don't like is two very large mounting holes (~ 5-6 mm in diameter) in the bottom of each model. The resin around the holes is a slightly raised, circular lip, giving them the appearance of a deep lunar crater. You really need to carefully sand and shape this raised feature down without distorting the complex lower hull shape. The holes are probably fine if you use large finials to mount the model, but I use slimmer brass rods. So I need to do a bit of extra work, whereas I would prefer to use my Dremel drill press to make much smaller holes in a solid resin bottom (no pre-drilled holes) for mounting my models.

[Guest]

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the input! I believe I will order their Yankee I this weekend.

Bill

[William]

Well, I received my Yankee I from Boris at Polar Bear models. It took just under two weeks from the date I ordered it to arrive. The model is exceptionally well molded and is very well detailed. I will order others!

Bill