Calling all USS Lexington CV-2 fans

[Tracy White]

One problem you're going to have is that her air group had F2A Buffalos until late January, 1942. I have one sort-of in progress (messed up the masking of the deck lines and haven't had the interest in stripping everything on the flight deck down and starting over on the yellow) and decided that it's "lexington-ish" I was just going to do a pre-war paint scheme since it's prettier any way and not worry about the details so much.

[Timmy C]

Dang! Maybe I'll just slap on a PE CXAM-1 and skip the turrettop AA and do the wartime scheme. I don't have any yellow paint anyway. Do we know if she had the MS-5 bow wave in the month between getting F4Fs and removal of the 8" turrets?

[Tracy White]

My guess is no false bow wave - she has it in October 1941 on the way out of San Diego, but note that the paint on her hull is badly chalked and probably washed away (the 5-D they were using at the time was a mixture of pre-war #5 gray and black, which lead to adhesion problems). As the false bow wave was effectively obsolete at that time I'm pretty sure when she repainted they would have left it off.

Just a guess though.

[John W.]

Can someone pass along the current thinking about the locations of the various components of the gun fire control systems as LEX left PH in April '42.
For the 5"/25 mounts, how many directors and what type were there, and where were they physically located? (I assume one director for each group of three.) But I know there is discussion including here about replacing the removed 8" directors after the turrets themselves were removed and putting 5" director(s) in their place. So, were there something like two MK19 directors placed on the upper platform where the two-part 8" directors were? To me, the picture Tracy posted above looks like at least one box structure is located on that platform nearest to the camera (toward the outer platform edge) that could be a director like a Mk19. If one or more 5" directors were in that location, one to port and one to starboard, where there two more aft of the stack on one of the platforms there?
I think I read somewhere that all the quad 1.1" mounts were unpowered, would that also mean none of them had directors either at that time. If that's not correct, where were the 1.1" directors located physically.
Finally, I do agree there seems to be a radar antenna above the roof of the Flag Plot and aft of the optical rangefinder on the FP roof. Is that the only FC radar antenna (assuming it is an FC radar.
Finally, can any post pictures of the Mk16 and Mk19 gun directors? I have been unable to get much in the way of pictures of the various late-peace / early-war gun directors. I get lots of Mk33 and later info, or Cold War stuff, but not this era.
I know LEX is still a mystery in some areas even after the information we've seen in the past few years, so I'm OK with an educated quess. I put LEX aside as a model project some years back when there was still some significant questions as to what the bridge structure looked like. I took my best swing - which actually turned out to be really close - but held off actually cementing things together and onto the model knowing full well that would be when pictures would show up showing me to be way wrong. I am laying out a plan to get back on that horse and want to clarify a few things with the collective wisdom here.
John

[Dick J]

The Lexingtons were built with 4 sets of MK-19 directors. I use the word "sets" because there were 2 components to each set. The main part of the director may be seen in this shot of Northampton.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/026/0402626.jpg
The second element was a rangefinder (with a periscope) that was later fitted on that vacant rounded protrusion just aft of Northampton's MK-19 main element. Lexington carried these sets, unmodified, to the end. 2 sets were on the fore top with the main elements toward the center and the rangefinders outboard, on the "wings" of the top. The other 2 sets were on the top platform on the back side of the stack. The MK-19 main elements were closer to the stack with the rangefinders aft of them. There were plans to combine the elements, as was done on the Northamptons and Pensacolas, but that was never done on Lex. Later plans to use MK-33 directors were also not implemented. Only Saratoga got upgraded directors, MK-37's in 1942.

None of Lexington's 1.1's had directors. The only MK-3 (FC) radar was installed on the former 8" control station above and behind the big rangefinder. I am not sure what you are referencing when you talk about the "box structure".

[John W.]

Dick -
Thanks, that answers most of my questions.
The "box structure" I refer to looks like the back side of an enclosed director - sort of like a Mk37, but not really a Mk37 since LEX had none - just a similar shape. Model Monkey hmakes a Mk19 (enclosed) director in his non-Shapeways catalogue and it kinda looked to me like the back side of that.
That said, looking at page 99 of Stern, there is a picture of the optical portion of the Mk19 which is missing in your NORTHAMPTON photo. Looking back carefully at a number of photos of LEX, including the last good picture before the explosions and a couple with the wisps of smoke, the vertical periscope can be seen in the four locations you mention. Hadn't really seen that before. But the rest of the Mk19 system seems to be enclosed in splinter shields or something similar. So I am wondering if the non-optical portion of the MK19 on LEX after the war started looks like the Model Monkey Mk19 director. I sure hope so from a modeling perspective. Duplicating the director in your NORTHAMPTON photo would be a challenge.
Thanks for helping me home in.
John

[Dick J]

Unfortunately, the MK-19's you need are the ones in the Northampton photo, but sitting in a tub. The only MK-19's I saw on the Model Monkey site were the modified (combined) ones I mentioned previously, as seen in this photo of the Salt Lake City (above the open bridge): http://www.navsource.org/archives/04/025/0402523.jpg
These modified units, which were about the size of the later MK-37's, were carried by the Pensacola's, the Northampton's and the Pearl Harbor battle line. They were not on the Lexington. They were essentially the original Mk-19 main director mounted in a rotating box shared with a new rangefinder (wider base and without the periscope). I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.

[John W.]

Dick -
Thanks. Of course I was hoping for a different answer. But thanks for the help.
John

[sas1975kr]

Hello. Who can help with boats?

As I understood the Booklet of General Plans 26 March 1936 contains a number of errors

Left side. Starting from the stern. In the photo before 1936:

-50 ft motor launch on main deck

beside funnel
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor launch

beside superstructure
-two 26 ft motor whale boats

after 1937:

-50 ft motor launch on main deck

beside funnel
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat
-40 ft motor boat ????
-40 ft motor launch at flight deck level

beside superstructure
-two 26ft motor whale boats

all boat and launch as in http://archive.hnsa.org/doc/pdf/boatsca ... 2-1955.pdf

Am I right or not?

[sas1975kr]

I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.

Campbell, John. Naval Weapons of World War Two, p.109?

[Captain Morgan]

I don't know of a source for those original MK-19's.

Campbell, John. Naval Weapons of World War Two, p.109?

I think he meant there is no source of aftermarket model parts of the original non enclosed MK 19 directors as seen on the Northampton class CA�s and Lexington class CV�s in the early thirties.

[MattFlegal]

One thing for my build (I'm backdating the 1/350 Saratoga back to the 1934 version of the Lexington) that I've been trying to figure out is what lies behind the openings along the hull side that in the plan book are listed as exhaust trunks. I'm assuming that there is some kind of chain barrier to keep the crew on the inside. . . In one of the pictures in David Doyle's book there is a shot of crewmen in them so it doesn't seem like its full of machinery. Currently I'm thinking I'll blank them off with small plastruct compartments and put PE railing across them similarly to what they have at the stern doors for the machinery shops. However if anyone actually knows what the heck is behind those please let me know!

[Rick E Davis]

I can't answer WHAT is behind these opening, but I can offer a couple of close crop images taken in 1938 (first image is dated 28 April 1938) and 1939 (second image is dated 28 January 1939) of USS LEXINGTON. It appears that these openings had doors that could be closed (one from below and one from above?).

[Captain Morgan]

One thing for my build (I'm backdating the 1/350 Saratoga back to the 1934 version of the Lexington) that I've been trying to figure out is what lies behind the openings along the hull side that in the plan book are listed as exhaust trunks. I'm assuming that there is some kind of chain barrier to keep the crew on the inside. . . In one of the pictures in David Doyle's book there is a shot of crewmen in them so it doesn't seem like its full of machinery. Currently I'm thinking I'll blank them off with small plastruct compartments and put PE railing across them similarly to what they have at the stern doors for the machinery shops. However if anyone actually knows what the heck is behind those please let me know!

The openings in the sides are for the intake ducts. The go down to the hangar deck then through dampers to boiler rooms the ducts are labeled "air duct B-1" through "air duct B-16" and each go down to the forced draft blowers for the 16 boilers. If you look at the plan layout of the decks you will see dampers that go off to the different areas.

[MattFlegal]

Thanks! I think I'll blank them off behind with Plastruct channel and put generic PE railing across them. It looks like the sailors are draping their legs over some sort of barrier at the least.

[Guest]

[quote="Rick E Davis"]I can't answer WHAT is behind these opening, but I can offer a couple of close crop images taken in 1938 (first image is dated 28 April 1938) and 1939 (second image is dated 28 January 1939) of USS LEXINGTON. It appears that these openings had doors that could be closed (one from below and one from above?).

Yes. It can be clearly seen on Sara. All divided into two parts. First four are exceptions
https://www.history.navy.mil/content/hi ... 29686.html

Nice foto. I would like to find a photo after 1940 with such quality :(

[MattFlegal]

I will say as I go down this path that thank God for Shapeways! The various pieces from ModelMonkey are excellent, the funnel is a work of art. Trys Bennet is very kindly doing the 1934 airwing and the first two are beautiful, The kit planes aren't great anyways but compared to these there isn't a comparison.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/XRFCS ... d=95793103
https://www.shapeways.com/product/P4F3X ... d=95794087

[Stephen Allen]

G�day

I am starting on the 1/350 Trumpeter Lexington, and wondered whether any of the extant plans of the ship accurately depict the layout of the flight deck planking. The kit shows it as all transverse, but photos appear to show longitudinal planking in some areas, notably around the forward end. I am building a pre March 42 refit version.

The Booklet of Plans doesn�t have this level of detail, would the Builders Plans (ala Floating Drydock) detail the deck planking? Any advice would be welcome. I haven�t decided yet whether I would scratch a new deck, it will depend on both available references and my estimation of how noticeable the changes would be under a flight deck filled with planes.

Cheers

Steve

[taskforce48]

G�day

I am starting on the 1/350 Trumpeter Lexington, and wondered whether any of the extant plans of the ship accurately depict the layout of the flight deck planking. The kit shows it as all transverse, but photos appear to show longitudinal planking in some areas, notably around the forward end. I am building a pre March 42 refit version.

The Booklet of Plans doesn�t have this level of detail, would the Builders Plans (ala Floating Drydock) detail the deck planking? Any advice would be welcome. I haven�t decided yet whether I would scratch a new deck, it will depend on both available references and my estimation of how noticeable the changes would be under a flight deck filled with planes.

Cheers

Steve

Steve,

You are correct, the Lex had some planking that did not run perpendicular with the hull. She mounted a early style catapult that was later removed. This is an often overlooked detail, I want to say the Fujimi kit for all its issues actually captured this detail. For some reason(feel like I read it somewhere once) they just planked in the trough that it left behind.

Photo from Rick Davis

It remained that way even after her bow was enlarged as you still see it on the wreck today.

I know I have a drawing at home somewhere that looks like it�s pretty close if not completely accurate. Just out of town for the next week on business. I will double check when I return.

HTH
Matt

[Stephen Allen]

Thanks Matt

Highly appreciated

Steve