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 Post subject: Fletcher Refit Info
PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Hello, I am currently working on a fletcher model and have been trying to determine the Layout of the twin 20mm guns on the fantail of the DD661 in 1945 The onl picture I have found seems to show this layout if those are actually twin 20's.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:25 am 
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First off when in 1945 are you wishing to model USS KIDD?

USS KIDD (DD-661) was in the Six 40-mm (three twin 40-mm mounts and ten single 20-mm guns) until her early 1945 overhaul at MINY (26 Dec 1944 to 10 Feb 1945). When she emerged, the image you posted shows her in February 1945, she had been upgraded to the Ten 40-mm configuration with five twin 40-mm mounts and seven single 20-mm guns. (Twin 20-mm mounts weren't authorized for FLETCHERS until April 1945) After her kamikaze damage she was repaired at HPNY from 25 May to about 1 August 1945, to the Anti-Kamikaze Mod with two quad 40-mm and three twin 40-mm mounts and six twin 20-mm mounts. The twin 20-mm guns were located two per side on the main deck amidships and two 20-mm mounts on the fantail. USS KIDD didn't return to the war zone before the war with Japan ended.

The images David posted shows USS KIDD as she appears today as a museum ship. USS KIDD served post WWII when recommissioned for the Korean War. She continued to serve into the mid-1960s. As such she had a lot of mods done to her. The USS KIDD museum crew are working at returning her to as near August 1945 configuration as they can. They are slowly removing 1950s equipment and installing WWII era equipment and fabricating things like bulwarks around weapons. The 20-mm guns were removed from FLETCHERS in 1953. So all new bulwarks and mount foundations have to be installed. Currently, the fantail arrangement they have for 20-mm guns isn't correct.

I don't have a clear overhead view of USS KIDD's fantail arrangement in August 1945. But it appears to be like the arrangement seen in the attached images of USS KIMBERLY (DD-521), USS YARNALL (DD-541), and USS HALSEY POWELL. You can see the shape of the bulwark around the 20-mm guns and the cutdown to the bulwark towards port and starboard and the extensions for the ready use ammo lockers. This arrangement was a pretty standard design used on most of the Anti-Kamikaze Mod FLETCHERS.

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 10:50 am 
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First of all, thank You, David, for the USS Kidd Photo's I have been on that ship several times and had even paid a blueprint company to copy the blueprints for me. But turns out They sent the company the 50's era prints. Either way, they have been useful.

And now for Rick to answer your question concerning when in 45 was I wishing to model her well it appears I want after the kamikaze attack since I had already started out with the quad '40s.
I had already been told that the current configuration on the USS KIDD fantail was incorrect. So I suspect I will attempt to recreate the fantail using the pictures you have supplied of the gun tub and its layout.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:39 am 
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Some of the other retro-modifications on USS KIDD are not quite right as well, but not as noticeable as the fantail 20-mm guns. By the time USS KIDD was retired from service (she was a NRT ship for a number of years before being mothballed), she had several bulwarks removed including those around the quad 40-mm mounts (and of course the quad 40-mm mounts themselves). They have done their best to duplicate bulwarks, but lack a lot of the details apparent in period photos.

The below deck modifications from the 1950s done to improve habitability, are the ones they probably won't be able to change.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:24 pm 
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Hi all, now this may have been asked before but with 91 pages to search through I sort of gave in after 15.

I'm looking to do one of the Fletchers in 1/350 with the catapult mounted in place of the aft torpedo tubes and with the deck house cut down and turret removed. I've found some photos but lack drawings of the deck house the catapult was mounted on and what other equipment was fitted and where. Any help appriciated.

If it makes a difference I'll settle on USS Stevens DD-479.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Here's a thread that would be of interest by someone who did a CAD model of a Fletcher catapult: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=88150&hilit=fletcher+catapult

Also on page 35 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&p=332172&hilit=fletcher+catapult#p332155

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 6:04 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
Here's a thread that would be of interest by someone who did a CAD model of a Fletcher catapult: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=88150&hilit=fletcher+catapult

Also on page 35 of this thread: viewtopic.php?f=49&t=8105&p=332172&hilit=fletcher+catapult#p332155


Thank you Timmy, gives me something to work on.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:09 pm 
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Paul Allen’s research vessel, the ‘Petrel’, has just found Fletcher-class DD-467 'Strong', which was torpedoed in Kula Gulf, off the Solomon Islands, on July 5, 1943. My uncle Albert Oberg [1921-1943], USNA '42, LTJG USN, grandson of Swedish immigrants, raised in Brooklyn, loved the sea, beloved by his shipmates, was mortally wounded in the sinking of 'Strong' in action in the South Pacific while assisting crew evacuation to another ship while under fire from Japanese shore batteries. He died of injuries while eluding Japanese patrols on Arundel Island, Solomons, was buried by surviving shipmates [only one of whom returned alive]. His body was never recovered, and he left behind a widowed mother and grieving fiancée. I wasn't even born yet, but we remember.

RV PETREL: https://paulallen.com/Indepth/Petrel/
Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/rvpetrel/?epa=SEARCH_BOX


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:08 am 
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Thanks, that is quite interesting. A great find, but also another sad story for those of her crew lost. I have had a keen interest in the destroyer and crew that came alongside USS STRONG and succeeded in getting most of her crew off, 7 officers and 232 enlisted, about 75% of the crew. The rescue destroyer was USS CHEVALIER (DD-451), a sister ship built at BIW. The account of the torpedoing of USS STRONG (DD-467) and USS CHEVALIER coming to her rescue in the face of enemy fire from her CHEVALIER's War Diary is attached. Below the account is a picture of USS CHEVALIER tied to the pier at Tulagi where she off-loaded STRONG's crew survivors on 6 July 1943. Ironically, USS CHEVALIER herself was sunk by a torpedo three months later.

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Image


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:26 pm 
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Greetings all,

I'm looking for some "relatively" up close pictures of the early Fletcher Torpedo Loading Crane (the ones mounted on the starboard side aside the aft stack). I've managed to look through the first roughly 72 pages of this tread and can't find anything. In particular what I'm looking to define is the chain falls and trolley that hang from the crane. Once I can work that into the assembly my crane is done and I can move on.

thanks in advance,

Bruce

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1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:16 pm 
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Bruce,

I'm traveling right now. If you can wait, in a couple of days I can get you images.

Rick


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Bruce,

Does this help -
Attachment:
21 inch Torpedo Loading Crane.jpg
21 inch Torpedo Loading Crane.jpg [ 85.39 KiB | Viewed 7406 times ]


If I can locate the BIW crane plans I'll post that, but it may take some time.

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Builder's yard:
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USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:01 am 
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Hey Guys,

Thanks. Rick I'm in no screaming hurry, whenever you have the time it will be appreciated as always. (on a side note: what would the destroy modeling community do without you!!!)

BB62Vet, thanks. I have the BIW plans and about all you get there is that its a rated 2-ton trolley hoist and the drawing just shows a bunch of circles. If worse comes to worse I'll end up imagineering something and dare anyone to prove me wrong! :)


thanks gain,

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Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 6:32 pm 
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Greetings all,

Just wanted to share with you a minor achievement on my USS Stevens project. After a number of iterations over the years I've finally gotten a representation of the Steven's aircraft handling crane that I think is acceptable and I can live with. The assembly was built in CAD so I could make changes as needed to the dimensions and then printed out on a 3d printer that I purchased not too long ago. Still need to do a couple of minor touch-ups so its just pinned into place for the picture.

Image

I will attach the three back supports when its time to do the final assembly. The lines you see coming out from underneath the turntable will eventually lead back to the winch used to control the vertical movement of the boom.

A shout out to Rick Davis for his help with pictures and suggestions.

good modeling all,
Bruce

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Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:12 pm 
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:big_grin: Looks excellent.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:15 pm 
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Bruce,

Very nice work! In your prior post you used the term "Imagineering" - well, I for one, know what that word means (in the CAD world) and am wondering what software package you're using. Just curious. I am guessing (don't recall if you've posted prior build iterations, or not) that you are kitbashing the Revell 1:144 FLETCHER - as will I when I get finished doing the CAD drawings for the superstructure of my 1st duty station (USS STODDARD) DD-566 in her '66-'68 configuration.

Anyhow, your model looks quite convincing, to date!

Hank

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Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:10 pm 
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Steve and Hank, thanks.

Hank to answer your questions. I am using Fusion360 on my home computer. And, nope, not using the Revell kit. This model was actually started before Revell released their kit. I have been using the excellent Fletcher CD set that I purchased years ago and building pretty much everything from scratch. The Kingfisher you see in the background is carved from basswood.

Good modeling all,

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OSC USN-Ret
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Currently on the building ways:
1/144 USS Stevens DD-479
1/144 USS Cook Inlet AVP-36
1/144 USS Walke DD-416
1/144 USS Preble DDG-46


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:08 am 
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How can I convert Fletcher DD into Korea era ship?

Is there a conversion kit out?

What are the core changes required? Hull, weapons, radar.

Appreciate insights!

Tamiya 1/350 and 1/700 WW2 versions would be a start, the ship to build would be USS Wadleigh dd689.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 7:40 am 
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Pascalemod wrote:
Quote:
How can I convert Fletcher DD into Korea era ship? Is there a conversion kit out? What are the core changes required? Hull, weapons, radar.


Well, these three questions can be answered as such:

1) Yes, but it will entail a LOT of research and scratchbuilding
2) No!
3) Hull - probably not, unless you want to correctly configure and create the sea chests, underwater intakes, etc.
Deck - Major changes involved
Superstructure - Major changes involved
Weapons - Yes, and there are 3D printed weapons available online
Masts/RADARs - YES!!! This will all have to be scratchbuilt

Now, having said that, a lot depends on WHICH ship you intend to build, what time period the model will represent, and which group that particular ship was modified with in regards to the type of modifications it went through. This is where the research comes into play. Most of the MAJOR changes in FLETCHER class DDs took place in the very early 1950s during the Korean War and therefore the research is critical. My particular ship (USS STODDARD DD-566) went through this modification process and when I served aboard (1966-68) she had already been modified and only major items were changed during our 1967 yard period.

I have been doing research on the FLETCHER modifications for the last 2 1/2 years and while many of the group changes were similar - you cannot assume that all the ships were modified identically - they were not. As I have said in my USS NEW JERSEY build several times, individual shipyards making conversions to ships did things differently and a general modification that was sent to the fleet didn't always result in sister ships having identical modifications when the work was completed. I saw this first hand in San Diego where many of these ships were homeported.

Hope this helps, etc.

Hank

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, Various Lg Scale FC Directors
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:58 pm 
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Pascalemod,

Hank is generally correct in a broad view of the FLETCHER class configurations from 1950 to 1972 while in USN service. But, you are asking about USS WADLEIGH (DD-689) "during the Korean War". I have to ask for what period during the KW are you wanting to model this ship?

When the FLETCHERS were mobilized from mothballs at the start of the KW and for that matter, what became the more intense Cold War, the plans for upgrading them evolved over their service life. The authorized upgrades changed configuration appearances and depending on when a destroyer was overhauled or retired, would last for only a short while or remain until the ship was scrapped.

Initially 41 out of the 82 (all Square-Bridge units) "Fleet Destroyer" configured FLETCHERS and recommissioned in the mobilization (18 other FLETCHERS were being converted to the ASW DDE configuration), were authorized to be upgraded with three twin RFG mounts in place of one 5-in/38 mount and all their 40-mm guns. Due to cost overruns, only 39 FLETCHERS while in USN SERVICE were were upgraded with 3-in RFG mounts in 1950-54 period. This modification became known as the "4-Gun FLETCHERS". USS WADLEIGH was one of those units, being so modified in early 1953 (corrected) at BosNY. The remaining FLETCHERS in service, were modified to what was known as the "5-Gun FLETCHERS", that basically was the late WWII Anti-Kamikaze Mod with two quad 40-mm mounts, also replacing the forward twin 40-mm mounts with two Hedgehogs and "generally" new radars (most on tripod foremasts) and sensors.

Prior to that upgrade, she was assigned to the Atlantic Fleet and didn't see service in the Southeast Asia area until, AFTER she was upgraded and a year of training, in May-November 1953 timeframe. Actually she didn't see service off Korea, but rather off Taiwan during a crisis period with China, before returning to Atlantic Fleet service. She went on to serve in the USN in the Atlantic Fleet until 1962 and saw additional modifications to her configuration, primarily upgraded electronics.

So to fully answer your question, I need to know just when, timeframe, you which to model USS WADLEIGH?

Early recommissioning configuration for WADLEIGH has her still in a basic WWII configuration that could be best matched by the Trumpeter "THE SULLIVANS" 1/350 kit. This image shows her during March 1952 when she was used in a movie.

Image

After her 3-in RFG upgrade, she had the standard configuration as authorized at the time. Note that she has the SPS-6C radar and minimal ECM suite at this time. The ECM suite and her ASW armament would be upgraded in late 1950s.

Image

AS for upgrading a 1/350 scale kit to a 1950's configuration, the Trumpeter 1/350 scale THE SULLIVANS kit is likely your best option. The Tamiya 1/350 FLETCHER kit would require more work with an aftermarket 3-D printed Square-Bridge form Model Monkey beside all the other components. There are aftermarket twin 3-in RFG mounts, Mk 56 GFCS, and Mk 63 GFCS available. But, you will need to scratch build the revisions to the midships deckhouse and aft deckhouse along with the "tubs" required for the RFG mounts. Model Monkey has "generic" twin 3-in RFG "tubs" that appear to be close enough when modified for a 4-Gun FLETCHER build.

At one time there "WAS" a 4-Gun conversion set for Tamiya 1/350 kit in resin. But, it had a LOT OF ERRORS and is no longer available in any case.


Last edited by Rick E Davis on Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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