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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:53 pm 
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They are indeed excellent photos, the album contains some great images both rare and not seen before, thankyou for posting.
Of interest, one image within the album I would question is that labelled Defender.
It is not a D class and appears to be a H class of 2nd destroyer flotilla, highly likely to be Hotspur.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2019 6:25 pm 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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I am reading the Langtree book now, and got interesting note on Jervis there.
He writes there that:
Jervis got 4" AA gun instead of rear quintuple TA when going to mediterranean. As she came there, the 4" was landed, and a QUADRUPLE TA was installed instead. Is there a proof of her having one Quad and one Quintuple TA? I am building her, so would be highly interested to know...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 4:03 am 
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Here is the relevant column for the J Class in the half yearly return CB 0815B dated April 1941 (theoretically correct as at 31st March 1941):
Attachment:
Jervis 9xTT a.jpg
Jervis 9xTT a.jpg [ 17.88 KiB | Viewed 477 times ]


Re a. PR means pentad, QR means quadruple so "PQR" is a slight typo by the staff officer compiling this list!
Attachment:
Jervis 9xTT bb.jpg
Jervis 9xTT bb.jpg [ 17.49 KiB | Viewed 477 times ]

But a distinction is clearly being made between Jervis and what the rest of her class were supposed to have.

Re b. the number of torpedoes carried on Jervis is clearly shown as 9 not 10.

Then at the bottom of the page confirmation of what we see in photos, that Jervis did not at that time have one set of TTs replaced by a 4" as she is not listed:
Attachment:
Jervis 9xTT c.jpg
Jervis 9xTT c.jpg [ 9.5 KiB | Viewed 477 times ]


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:20 am 
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dick wrote '... "PQR" is a slight typo by the staff officer compiling this list' - in fact, this was probably not a typo. Norman Friedman in British Destroyers From Earliest Days to the Second World War (Barnsley: Seaforth Publishing, 2009) wrote "... removal of the centre tubes in the I class, their pentad revolving (PR) mounts being redesignated pentad quadruple revolving (PQR) mounts." He refers to a CAFO dated 15 February 1940. Thus it appears that PQR mounts DID exist, and it is entirely possible that JERVIS was fitted with one.


Last edited by tjstoneman on Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 7:19 am 
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A good point Tim and if I had turned a couple more pages in CB 01815B I would have seen this in relation to the I Class:
Attachment:
PQR I Class.jpg
PQR I Class.jpg [ 7.29 KiB | Viewed 450 times ]

(Still poor staff work however as "PQR" should have been listed along with the other TT options in the Notes section!)


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2019 2:52 pm 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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Is there a decent drawing (or a photo) how such a PQR tubes set would look like? On the pentad tubes, there is a control position on top. What would happen with it?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:50 am 
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dick wrote:
A good point Tim and if I had turned a couple more pages in CB 01815B I would have seen this in relation to the I Class:
Attachment:
PQR I Class.jpg

(Still poor staff work however as "PQR" should have been listed along with the other TT options in the Notes section!)


Dear Richard,

Could you please tell me the date for CB01815B? I haven't yet modified my Imperial you see... Presumably it's dated before she was sunk :heh:

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http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=167151


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 6:02 am 
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The previous image of Jervis at Alex shows the forward 5 set TT trained to beam strbd, the torpedoman splinter enclosure may be there, but the aft quad set has no enclosure, the previous strbd image I posted shows no control position on the aft set.
Her IWM image for mid 42 shows no enclosure on either TT set.
As with all equipment these primary control positions may have been repositioned spanning time, the small useless image in Langtree`s book Pg 91, shows what could be a change of primary control to the aft set? but very had to distinguish.
For early/mid 41 it would appear the aft set had no enclosure fitted.


Attachments:
JERVIS, 05.41.jpg
JERVIS, 05.41.jpg [ 144.59 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
JERVIS, mid 42.jpg
JERVIS, mid 42.jpg [ 114.97 KiB | Viewed 365 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 8:51 am 
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Dear Jamie,

That was the April 1941 edition theoretically corrected to 31 March 1941. Interestingly the previous edition (October 1940, theoretically corrected to 30th September 1940) does not make this exception for Imperial. To my mind this raises the possibility that one of her sets of PQR TT mountings was damaged by her mining in October 1940 and replaced with a spare PR set during her repairs at Malta November 1940 - March 1941. If so I wonder which?! Given that the damage was concentrated aft towards Imperial’s stern perhaps the aft set of TTs? Frustratingly the Admiral Superintendent’s report only details damage to and repairs made to Imperial’s structure (hull) and the photos I sent you copies of don’t help.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:17 am 
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I think that these two photos show what we may all have been looking for: photographic evidence that the aft set of TTs on Jervis was a PQR.
In the first (looking forward) the outermost tubes on both mountings are in line ie the aft mounting was no narrower than the forward one:
Attachment:
Jervis 1943 5 15 arr Malta a.jpg
Jervis 1943 5 15 arr Malta a.jpg [ 85.64 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]


In the second (looking aft) there is an obvious gap where a centre tube would have been:
Attachment:
Jervis 1943 5 15 arr Malta b.jpg
Jervis 1943 5 15 arr Malta b.jpg [ 90.3 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]


Also visible in both photos is what I interpret as the (largely unprotected) local firing control position at the edge of the PQR which I think is in fact also visible in Brett's photo:
Attachment:
Jervis 1940 9 13  ish perhaps Samos perhaps - Copy.jpg
Jervis 1940 9 13 ish perhaps Samos perhaps - Copy.jpg [ 47.89 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]


This overheard view shows it in the same position on a PQR on an I Class destroyer (Icarus):
Attachment:
Icarus 1942 10 19 i.jpg
Icarus 1942 10 19 i.jpg [ 82.62 KiB | Viewed 352 times ]


Last edited by dick on Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:52 am 
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PetrOs Modellbau
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Okay! Now I just need to decide how do I make the surgery on the middle tube on Jervis build.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Does anyone have a source for good plans in 1/96 for J-K-N's?
Thinking of scratching one for RC. Update: Picked up a copy of Ough's plans.


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