The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 10:53 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 287 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:29 pm
Posts: 1284
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Jeff, looks like Ms11 for sure for how I'm trying to depict the ship then, but with natural wood decks, based on the info you provided in the Portland and Indy thread.

_________________
-Abram


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 953
Abram,
Looks like my leading candidate for the date of this film footage is Dec.5, 1941 in the morning before Minneapolis left the formation at 0920.
Image
Image

So I have a feeling that Chicago was probably painted in MS-11 in November at Pearl like Raleigh, Detroit, St Louis, Honolulu, Phoenix were.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 707
Location: Czech Republic
Hi Abram and all, this is very interesting! I actually had a discussion about the possibility of Chicago retaining 5-S (Ms11) even after her voyage to Australia in the Facebook Warship Camouflage Research Group some weeks ago. Just my speculation on how to explain why the "Chicago Blue" happenned to be very different from even faded 5-N. Now you proved she actually wore 5-S before Pearl Harbor attack. I acknowledge there are arguments against her retaining 5-S later, it´s just a possibility. FWIW

Abram, re your table of turret colours above - I hope you are aware you actually need the USS Houston Corsair Armada kit to make a 1941 Chicago (unless you replace most of her superstructure like I did ;) ). Their Chicago kit depicts her after the final refit in Dec 1942.

_________________
Battle of Savo Island Collection (all 1/700)
Recently completed: USS Wilson DD-408
At works: USS Astoria CA-34 | USS Patterson DD-392 & USS Bagley DD-386
Prep stage: USS Vincennes CA-44 | HMAS Australia | Yubari | Kako


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 12:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 953
I also found this article that talks about USS Minneapolis and the filming of the movie. This confirms the date of 12/5/41 so Chicago was definitely in MS-11 before the attack.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyr ... n/%3famp=1


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 1:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:29 pm
Posts: 1284
Location: Tempe, Arizona
Jeff and Vladi, Thanks for the information and looking into this with me.

Vladi, the Houston kit is the one I have, I just didn't distinguish which version of a kit I was using on the spread sheet. Thanks for checking on that.

_________________
-Abram


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 707
Location: Czech Republic
All good then, Abram :)

_________________
Battle of Savo Island Collection (all 1/700)
Recently completed: USS Wilson DD-408
At works: USS Astoria CA-34 | USS Patterson DD-392 & USS Bagley DD-386
Prep stage: USS Vincennes CA-44 | HMAS Australia | Yubari | Kako


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 953
Check out her CXAM
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/clip ... -fired-uss


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 08, 2020 1:24 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:29 pm
Posts: 1284
Location: Tempe, Arizona
That's pretty cool, I guess I've never thought about the fact it rotates like that, for some reason I thought it was like the gun directors and only moved at what they're trying to see. Thanks for sharing

_________________
-Abram


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks to Rick D for helping with some King Board info. Stumbled upon the CinCAF Annual Report 1941 with some references to Houston dated Sep 11, 1941.

Attachment:
CinCAF Annual Report 1941 p. 48.jpg
CinCAF Annual Report 1941 p. 48.jpg [ 373.19 KiB | Viewed 2110 times ]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:49 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:25 pm
Posts: 15
Next 3 pages from the Annual Report, p.48 (last post), 59, 66, 67
Attachment:
CinCaf p59.jpg
CinCaf p59.jpg [ 267.28 KiB | Viewed 2111 times ]
Attachment:
CinCaf p66.jpg
CinCaf p66.jpg [ 385.17 KiB | Viewed 2111 times ]
Attachment:
CinCAF p.67.jpg
CinCAF p.67.jpg [ 260.3 KiB | Viewed 2111 times ]


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:08 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:24 pm
Posts: 62
Useful documents about HOUSTON. They confirm her propulsion system was sound at least--which was always the contention of her senior surviving Engineer officer (LT Bob Fulton)--as the war approached, even if her armament still needed considerable work. Her logs show she made at least 31 kts on full power runs as she steamed out from CA to Hawaii in late '40, and had reached 30 kts later in her second Asiatic Fleet deployment.
The issues with her 'new' MK19 5" directors were never properly addressed, as we know. THAT, in fact, eventually became her Achilles heel, and may be argued to have contributed to her loss.

The problems with her degaussing girdle explains anecdotal evidence that they were still fooling w/that at Cavite in Nov. 1941 when she left for her southern 'defensive' position at Iloilo.
And she never got her new searchlights (which were left on the dock at Cavite) or any directors for the quad 1.1" guns, etc.
Ironically, the former were noted by her IJN adversaries at Sunda Strait as weak during her final engagement.

Many thanks.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2020 11:52 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 8159
Location: New Jersey
Jeff Sharp wrote:

Kudos to you Jeff, you always find such interesting stuff.

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2020 10:05 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 953
Thanks Martin!
Here's some more for ya.
Tracy submitted this photo to Navsource dated Feb.12, 1945 aboard USS Chester.
Image

There is actually color film footage of this day over on Critical Past.
The color those two sailors are painting the anchor chain is yellow.
Image

There is a handful of Chester footage during that same week on the Critical Past site. She was wearing Measure 32 Design 9D in these films but her decks were no longer camouflaged.
Image

A couple of close up shots of her hanger deck and the deck above the hangers have me scratching my head a little bit again about deck colors.
This one shows church service on Feb. 11th. Notice that the hanger deck no longer has wood decking. It appears to have some sort of brownish square pattern to it now.
Image
Image
Image

The deck above the Hanger also has a very brown tone to it compared to the blue plane.
Image
Image

If you wish to see all the films from this week, just type in USS Chester in the search field on the Critical Past site.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2020 12:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
I think the "squares" are non-skid material. There were several different non-skid surfaces tried/used during WWII, which one this is I have no idea. The USN painted the stuff deck blue (or whatever was the camo of the day) to match metal surfaces, but the paint wore off fairly quickly.

As for the Yellow Primer appearing almost white in B&W photography, this is pretty common. I came to the conclusion some time ago that the strange "whitest" areas were primer. I read somewhere that the yellow zinc chromate also changed color as it aged. I saw this in a couple of color images. Turning from bright yellow to light yellow, to a sort of Tan.

This image shows a well worn destroyer (USS ERBEN DD-631) with areas of rust and various ages of primer applied. Also note, how the faded 5-N becomes darker when wet.

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 5:41 pm 
Hello all hands
i came up on this thread seeking info on painting the decks of the Northampton (2400 scale) and found a treasure trove of into. Thanks to all for the wonderful resources, i see that i will need to do some wood decks and some compsiite ones like the hangar deck and the upper gun deck, working with what photos i can find and info.

I am wondering if you all know of a remarkable book i found by a sailor named Fitch who wrote his story as a young enlistee into the Navy pre war and his experiences as a crewman aboard the Northampton until she was sunk and his life afterwards in various duty stations and ships. It is a remarkable book and just wanted to post the info on it if anyone didnt know of it and was interested. He was for a while Adm. Spruance's Talker among other remarkable experiences he had and he was aboard for the memorable visit to Australia his ship made, as well as being aboard at the time of Pearl Harbor, and all of the other significant engagements until the sinking of the Northampton.

thanks again for the wonderful resources here. I look forward to more study I am working on some historical research on the IJN and USN in WWII using both hands on research and 350 scale and 2400 scale ship modelling for deeper engagement. thanks again.

Chris

Desert Sailor
Growing up in the Pacific Fleet 1941-1946
A Memoir by James W. Fitch FC 1/c USN
Infinity Publishing.com
www,buybooksontheweb.com


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:54 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2009 12:40 pm
Posts: 539
Chris, the decks would have been painted Deck Blue 20-B. I believe it was a match to the Navy Blue 5-N paint that was used on the verticals surfaces. HTA, Jon


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Feb 06, 2021 4:12 pm 
thank you Jon

i tried wood decks and it just didnt feel right. I will go with your info much appreciated. It just bugged me and I want to get this right and keep it accurate. I am working on various classes of ships of both USN and IJN, and have had excellent help from a pro here for IJN and for some of USN..but the USN went thru so many changes during the war and I have come to learn individual Captains and individual yards may have impacted the paint schemes of ships as well.

Also the non skid matting that was introduced that was a darkish brown color added another level of complexity. Not sure if all classes of ships used it. Will keep digging in the LIFE archive and other original sources as much as possible. thanks again. The Northampton is the first CA I have worked on and wanted to get her right.

thanks.

Chris


Top
  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:04 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:38 am
Posts: 707
Location: Czech Republic
Hello Chris, do you mean the non-skid matting that can be seen on the hangar roof of Northampton here? Are you sure it was darkish brown? I always thought it was dark gray (rubber).
Attachment:
19420300 USS Northampton bridge looking aft from Life via FB Radio.WW2.jpg
19420300 USS Northampton bridge looking aft from Life via FB Radio.WW2.jpg [ 134.2 KiB | Viewed 2334 times ]

BTW this photo is coming from the LIFE archive that was at one point of time available on FB but it then disappeared. I would be glad if you could share where could it be found now, it was a great resource!

This is how I depicted this matting on my USS Chicago. I used decals printed on a laser printer, so there was no way how to make them appearing dark gray (very few laser printers print white colour), that´s why they are just black.
Attachment:
Chicago 10_cr.jpg
Chicago 10_cr.jpg [ 213.22 KiB | Viewed 2334 times ]

_________________
Battle of Savo Island Collection (all 1/700)
Recently completed: USS Wilson DD-408
At works: USS Astoria CA-34 | USS Patterson DD-392 & USS Bagley DD-386
Prep stage: USS Vincennes CA-44 | HMAS Australia | Yubari | Kako


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2010 12:01 am
Posts: 1643
Location: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
In the 1970s the US Navy used stick-on nonskid patches like what you see in the Northampton photos. They came in rolls. You just peeled them off the backing and pressed them down wherever you wanted them. They had a black grit, but you could paint over them.

I don't know if they were the same exactly as used in WWII but they looked the same.

We also mixed sand with paint to create continuous non-skid areas.

Phil

_________________
A collision at sea will ruin your entire day. Aristotle


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:42 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm
Posts: 3825
The non-skid used in WWII no matter what they looked like new, did seem to start looking almost brownish after the paint was worn off and got dirty from oil, grease, and all kinds of other tracked on grime. But, depending on the ship's CO and the Chief's responsible, there would have been an effort to keep the decks primed and painted. But, ships were not allowed to keep a lot of paint onboard, so rusty areas could have been primed and waited for an opportunity to get paint at an advance base or from a tender.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 287 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 41 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group