The Ship Model Forum

I find myself drawn to adding detail to the top level of the forward superstructure but frustrated by a lack of clear photos and plans. In particular, the structure immediately forward of the director control tower is incredibly simplified and mystifying. The best information I've found are two aerial shots by the US Navy in the mid and late 30's:



The Trumpeter 1/350th kit represents this as a closed top forward and it's fairly evident that it is not. The awning layout in the 1934 photo suggests it might be some form of air defense lookout station, and the openings to the side at the rear suggest a ladder or opening in the bulkhead for entry/exit. A cut out or doorway? It would appear there is a flare at the top of the bulkhead based on the shadow. The 1939 overhead appears to show two seats or apparatus that I don't see in the 1934 photos. Could these be something similar to the USN's Sky Lookout Chairs or perhaps a torpedo director (source of a known type?

York's superstructure is completely different and is of no help. I have tried going through other ships to see if there is a similar design that might help but haven't had any luck due to the number of ships and dearth of close-in photos (I just don't know WHY no one snuck their drone in close to post the fly-by to Youtube!). Any books that might have plans or isometric drawings or photos?

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Hi, Im am having exactly the same problem as you. Take this as you wish as it is a world of waships video of Exeter. It is post refit but if you add what we know from photos to be true they seem to have got hold of some info not generally available . The step in the railings around the inclined ladders is correct , the ladder going up the starbord side where the gap in the awning is, is correct . Also what looks like two slightly angled squaues on the posible lookout is there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeE6diL5GGE&t=78s wotrth a look any way, as if it all fits in to existing photos possibly the other parts are right? for me it answers the 12 foot range finder conundrem and their hight as well ?

Hmmm completely didn't think that the darker deck was a different material versus just recessed and in shadow from the bulkhead.

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Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman

Gents, here is a glimpse / comparison of what Exeter (and York) would have looked like if built as conceived in 1928, as opposed to how she looked 'as designed' 1930.

Top image profile 'as conceived' 1928.
Bottom image profile 'as designed' 1930.

Enjoy!

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Gents, a question.

Re the excerpt from Profile Morskie's Exeter post refit plan. What are the devices in the 'tub's above Exeter's aft superstructure supposed to be / represent?

As can be seen in the post refit photo, there is nothing in there, and nothing in there on the wreck either (so I can only assume it was something that was intended to be placed in there - as was the 20mm I have crossed out on turret top).

I'll take a guess an assume some sort of weaponry?

Any help appreciated.

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Pompom directors

The items drawn in the 'tubs' match Profile Morskie's standard depiction of pompom directors fitted with RDF Type 282.

Thanks for the speedy reply gents.

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

I've found two distinct illustrations of HMS York's starboard camouflage in 1941. The one included in Trumpeters instruction appears different from other pictures. Does anyone have a photo of her starboard side?
thanks, Walt Haynes

I assume that the Trumpeter one is different to this in these four places?

thanks, just what I needed

I wonder if someone would care to ID where / what location this gun was placed on Exeter?

Photos captioned as I received.

BTW; 'Dick' if you are reading this 1) thanks for posting that pic of York at bottom of previous page and 2) do you know what date that photo was taken? TIA!

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Exeter's saluting guns were fitted on the after superstructure abreast the mainmast, two on each side. They are visible in Official U.S. Navy photo NH 60807 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Overhead_view_of_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_Panama_Canal_Zone_in_the_1930s.jpg).

Thanks for that Tim

Interestingly, and the reason I asked, is the pic I posted gives / gave (me) the impression that it was taken on the upper-deck level, as we seem to be looking over the deck railing directly onto the sea, as opposed to down onto the upper deck, as I thought we would be from where they are situated in the pic you linked to.

I guess it's just the angle of view / position the photographer was in - in what I posted - which gave me that impression as it were.

Again thanks.

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Sorry, I have no exact date. Photo was taken at Alexandria so it is sometime late September 1940 - March 1941. Given what the crew are wearing, I suspect closer to mid-winter.

I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?



I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco

Are they reflections or just bulkhead features (piping, wiring, portholes) from "behind" the frames? If they were reflections, what would they be reflecting? An adjacent ship?

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De quoi s'agit-il?

Yeah, looks weird to be a reflection, the images look more like doors or something on the inside. I guess I will not use “glass” in my model.

Marco

Hi Marco,

If there was glass in the windows on the sides of the upper bridge, then I have never seen it shown in any historical photos (or if there was, then the windows are always shown open), nor was any glass there on the wreck. Nor did we find any evidence of sliding panels that could have slide open / closed either. (However there were of course panes of glass around the open bridge, although on the wreck many had fallen out.)

The arrows in the collage below point to the relevant areas photographed on the wreck (note; as the u/w photos were taken with a 'fish-eye' lens there is some curvature in the u/w image on right.)

Image #2 is just a close up of the bridge in 1941.

However, and this is a general question to anyone, in image #3 also taken in 1941, what are the small lighter coloured 'circles' that we see ‘in’ (or behind?) three of the windows?

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“We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
“A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942

Was there an inner bulkhead with scuttles behind the open frames ?
This perception of glassed windows is also reproduced in many incorrect renditions of Leander class cruisers. The RAN modified Leander class also had open frames with an open avenue between the inner wall and outer skin, I expect Exeter may have been the same.
Even though these scuttles were in shadow, at just the right angle they would reflect light, I have seen stranger things.
Could this not be reflections of those inner scuttles? as per the attachment of Leander.