Calling all Iowa-class (BB-61) fans

[RNfanDan]

Anyway, if you want to build Iowa as commissioned, take a close look at Mark Deakin's, "early", Iowa...

FREE advice....you get it here on the Iowa Fans Thread!
faithfully submited, Tony Bunch

I appreciate the tips. As for starting with another kit, not a chance! I've waited thirty years for a decent 1:600 scale Iowa, and of all the near-misses available, none can beat this Otaki one. The hull measures well, is properly skegged and contoured (except at the forepeak of the bow, where it seems all kits struggle just a bit, and there is a decent deck to work with.

The entire superstructure/shelter deck assembly is removable for access to the motor and batteries (though I am not building it with these), and thus leaves me free to model the entire midships using scratch materials and aftermarket fittings. I can see the most major work will be required astern of "Y" turret (is this correct in USN terminology?), where the helopad is molded-in. Other than that, I'm in pretty good shape with the rest.

I plan to use Tom's Modelworks and WEM 1:600 PE sets for railings, shields and radars, and Airfix 20-mm mounts for the "singles" galleries fore and aft. I will use Revell 40-mm quad mounts where applicable. I will also build my own 5"/38 turrets if necessary, or just modify the ones in the kit with some Evergreen.

Keep in mind that, as a scratchbuilder, I am looking not for an accurate OOB model, but rather accurate OOB hulls and whatever other difficult parts I can utilize, with no fear of scratchbuilding everything else.

Sorry it took so long, I hadn't visited this post for awhile...

[Luca Bevilacqua]

Hi all.

I am building 2 x 1:350 tamiya Missouri kits.

Both will have estensive upgrades with L�Arsenal parts (BTW all stuff from Jacques is very good, I have the 2 forecastle already in place, they look so gorgeous, I am tempted not to paint the ships, just joking of course) + both GMM P/E frets.

One will be fitted with BB61 resin conversion set I got from Tom (useful I guess even tough the resin casting is not as crisp as the castings from L�Arsenal, I wonder which are the unresolved issues mentioned by Tony Bunch)

Still I have a few doubts left, maybe someone around here can help.

1) overall lenght, according to my calculations, the model is about 2 mm too long. That is also, more or less the gap there is between the deck pieces, hence I simply mounted the center and forecastle deck pieces in the aftermost possibile position and sanded slightly the tip ot the bow, to get it aligned to the forward 20 mm sponson.
2) Main barrell lenght. According to the plans available on line the Tamiya main barrells are about 2 mm too short.Compared with Lion Roar BB55 barrells (that are correct bored, I am told) the also are under-bored. Am I correct ? I am considering brass barrells. May be adapted BB55 Lion Roar of which I have some spare. Does anyone know what Steve Nuttall does with his BB63 barrells ?
3) Iowa bridge. The 1:700 Iowa kit by Tamiya has a �partially� open bridge. I.e. the bridge is rounded, mostly open and markedly different from the BB63 one and quite similar to Tom�s conversion; however a small portion around the conning tower, is enclosed whereas Tom as the part completely open. Just a platform open around the conning tower. Which is correct ?
4) While studying the plans available on line I noticed on the plan views, small circles drawn on the bulkheads that I think may represent the position of portholes. Am I correct ? (it would be a nice drilling guide)
5) 40 mm gun tubs flooring too raised. I have not checked but I think the flooring should be level with main deck. I tought of simply sanding flat from below to reduce the problem. In a couple of cases under bracing needs consideration, tough.
6) 6 the training gun rapresentation (pieces E5 & E6 is crude). May be L�arsenal open mounts could be modified to get a more decent representation of the real things ?


Enough for now, got to get back to work.

Thanks for the help in advance
Yours
Luca

[NucSub]

BB 55 barrells should be too short for your Iowa.
BB 55 are 45cal, Iowa are 50cal.
I don't know if you can compensate by sliding the barrels forward to expose more.
Addiitonal photos of Iowa are available in Navsource.
It will be an interesting build.

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Luca,
I love to help, but don't have enough time right now to address each concern individually. Suffice it to say:
1) NucSub is correct, the 16"50's are longer than the 16"45's. I have a set of Nuttal brass barrels that look AWESOME! Recommended. Some work here, but worth it!
2) The open area behind the bridge is supposed to be there..like the Tamiya 1/700 kits. This is simply a passageway that will have to be added to, "accurize", the Tom's bridge and the Tamiya bridge alike.
3) If one of your builds is BB63, get the Stillwell book, "Battleship Missouri, an illustrated history".
4) Iowa, then get the Summrall book, "Iowa class battleships..."
Can't do without them!
5) The Tamiya kit is completely lacking detail amiships between the AAA 6x40mm elevated platforms. This area is in need of attention, and it doesn't take long to enhance.
6) The 02 deck level between the 5"38 twin mounts needs some wood deck planking. Tamiya ignored this area...who knows why.
out of time for now, Tony Bunch

[thathaway3]

One other problem with the Tamiya 1/350 Missouri that I didn't notice until past the point where I wanted to take all the effort to fix it. The signal flag lockers on the 04 level just astern of the cutouts for the #1 and #2 5" mounts are too far forward. Since they are molded in to the deck they should be removed and either relocated, or a scratch built replacement installed and the deck reworked.

I didn't realize the error until I'd gone too far into the detailing, painting and rigging, and it would have meant more rework than I was willing to handle at that point. The biggest problem with the location as molded, is that the signal halyards from the yard instead of being essential vertical between the railing and the yard have a decidedly forward slant.

Tom

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Luca,
Speaking of the flag bags:
There is supposed to be one at the stern base of the aft funnel...not there.
Also, the Trumpeter North Carolina kit has much better 5" practice loaders.
I used the Summrall and then the Stillwell book(s) for the drawings at the book(s) back showing the placement of the, "air port holes". These were 12" and 16" diameter. The drawings and the numerous pictures in each book allow you to locate and differentiate these, "air port holes".
I made a drill jig from laminated strip styrene. This jig worked okay, but I found myself oblating the drill jig and having to make another...more than twice. The drill jig would best be made from brass, as it's service life would exceed 10-12 drill attempts.
Note:
Two drill jigs will be needed, as the jig will either be, "floor mounted", or, "hanging down", from a top-edge. There is a step that makes the use of one drill jig with only one set of drill holes impossible. Now, of course, you can design a really fancy drill jig with numerous allowances and capabilities I suppose.
The drilling procedure was time consuming. More than once, I had to "fill and re-drill". Also, when drilling through a "corner", where the wall thickness is greater, watch out for a hole that looks more like a tunnel!
Two ways around this: 1) add on thin sheet styrene pre-drilled and don't drill through the kit bulkhead. Just paint black behind it, or something like that.
2) thin the area behind the hole, so that it looks like a porthole.
What else........
some pics of the modified bridge pieces....






Since you plan to use the GMM p/e sets, you will be removing all of the bridge windows. Guess what..? Then you will have to add the armored conning tower section now visible through the bridge windows.
Not too terribly difficult..with some drawings to use!
Air Port Holes....
Here are some of the port holes. I used an .0625" drill for the larger holes,(too big actually..should be .050" or so..you do the math), and a smaller drill size that matched the molded in place port holes for the smaller ones. I think I must have drilled at least 60 times..including some of the re-drills!

These pix were taken at the end of 2003...
Moving forward a couple of years...
Here is a picture of the mostly finished forward fire control tower area. Note the sections of 02 level wood deck planking I had to add on, (pre-scribed model RR siding with almost perfect plank spacing...scribed..not raised though), and sanded down to .010" thickness..very thin!
"What an Iowa Fan won't do..."
faithfully submitted, Tony Bunch

[Luca Bevilacqua]

Hi Tony, Nucsub, Tom, hi all

thanks for the great tips, guys, I really appreciate them.
I had not noticed about the flag bags and the missing planks area.
I think I may be able to fix the missing planks, with a variation to Tony�s method.
To save time/money probably I�ll just thin down some strip of the �planked� plastic Tamiya gives in the kit itself.
I have the 2 plastic forecastle as spares.

If one chooses not to buy the resin replacement (which I think would be an error since the piece is a masterpiece, but you know budget are constrained after all), there is some covered part of the main deck (below B barbette) that should be enough�

I am afraid relocating the flag bags and fixing the deck will be beyond my skills.
Since I have one piece spare (I already installed Tom�s resin on the Iowa) I�ll practice there and see if I can risk to undertake the operation.
The spare piece should also give me 2 pieces flag bag lockers. Perfect for the aft missing ones on the 2 ships. If they were in fact equal�

About the open bridge area I am not able to see the pics, Tony kindly posted.
I would love to.
Is it my company�s firewall fault ?

I realise I should have made myself more clear about my doubts for the main barrells.
I�ll try again.
I am also building (what I am not building at some stage, I wonder�) a Trumpeter 1:350 BB55 and I was told by a fellow expert modeller/historian that the Lion Roar replacement barrells, altough they have a slightly incorrect taper (for BB55), have a bore of correct size.
Problem is: they are significantly bigger (larger bore) than plastic Tamiya barrells can accomodate.

Being both 16� I concluded Tamiya barrells must be too small.
To check it out, I fetched the online PDF plan of USS Missouri, printed it, rescaled it to 1:350 and surprise (if I did not screw up the scaling) noticed that the Tamiya plastic barrells are also shorter than the scaled drawing.
Hence my first doubt: has anyone noticed this or was just an error of mine (or in my sources) ?
Knowing what great job Steve Nuttall does with his barrells I tought may be if I am correct he would have already noticed and be making his barrells somewhat bigger than the Tamiya counterparts.
About the barrells there is a second facet. I bought a few (2 actually) Lion Roar BB55 sets more than I needed. Overall the quality/price ratio was good and I tought I could always use some spare for light AA, raft bottoms, anchor chain, 5� hollow barrells, �
The Lion Roar barrells are significantly longer than the externally exposed area since they are supposed to reach to a cradle inside BB55 main turrets.
Hence it is conceivable to slide them forward to 50 caliber length.
Of course taper will not be perfect, probably unacceptably so, for us purists, and one also ruins the plastic blast bags (which is a nuisance, altough recoverable)�
But in the other end the Tamiya plastic barrells looked even more wrong to me�

At the end of the day I should get the references Tony mentioned.
Since in Italy that is a lenghty and quite expensive proposition. I tought may be some one had already noticed�

Thanks for everything
Yours
Luca

[thathaway3]

Luca, moving/replacing the forward flag bags doesn't really take as much skill as you might fear. If you plan to reuse the originals and move them that is much harder. You can always use your trusty #11 Exacto knife and cut the original off at the deck, but that does take quite a bit of time and patience.

Like Tony, I noticed that there is supposed to be a third behind the aft stack, so I scratch built one, and that I think is the solution if you want to go to the trouble of actually locating the forward ones in the right spot. After you've measured the existing ones carefully, simply grind the old ones off with a Dremel if you have one. I'm guessing that when you do that, there will be no deck under the original location, but with sheet styrene you can cut a patch to fit, and also fabricate your new ones. I'm pretty sure all three are the same size, and consist of a front, back, two sides and the inside dividers. Scratch building these has the added advantage of giving you an open locker rather than one with the top molded shut like on the original kit.

One thing about the blast bags and the metal barrels. I used Steve Nuttal's metal barrels for the Missouri, but I also used the Tamiya barrels for the blast bags. I cut the plastic barrels off right where they emerged from the blast bags. Next I glued the blast bags on to the turret. Then I carefully drilled out a hole through the center of the blast bag and into the turret with a pin vise and a drill bit the same size as the barrel. This allowed me to slip the barrel in through the bag and into the turret. And I could position it to the depth I wanted.

It will be a must I think to make a jig with three holes the diameter of the SMALL end of the barrel exactly the correct distance apart as the centerlines of the barrels. This makes sure they're lined up right before you glue them.


Tom

[Poppop]

I see that Eduard (http://www.eduard.cz) has released a 1/350 USS New Jersey PE set for the Tamiya kit. It's for a late era ship.

Unfortunately, it's too late for my model, but a quick scan of the 10 page instruction sheets looks quite impressive.

Regards,

Charlie L.

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Luca,
I will post a couple of pics, (when I am able), of the Nuttal barrels and the kits' barrels side by side. Heck, I will throw in a BB55 barrel.
Soon, Tony

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Here you go!
Pics are of the following:
1)Tamiya 1/350 16"50 barrel with blast bag
2)Nuttal 16"50 CNC Brass Barrel with raised rib to stop at blast bag entrance
3)Still on Sprue 16"45 from Trumpeter 1/350 North Carolina kit
Conclusions:
1)Tamiya barrels a bit short....050" at the most. Pretty darn close really. Have you guys seen the Otaki 1/350 Barrels??? WAAY LONGER! No pics, sorry.
2)The assumption here being the barrels are not in "recoil" configuration.
3)Trumpeter barrels are , (if anything), too long and too much outside diameter.
This is an Iowa page, so I'm not going there.....



I've got to put my faith in Steve Nuttal with these barrels.
anyones' comments are welcome...
faithfully submited, Tony Bunch
still an Iowa Class Fan

[Luca Bevilacqua]

Hi all guys.

Tony,
thanks for the barrels pics, they explain it all.
I also thrust Steve and his great work, so I think it is now safe to conclude that Tamiya�s barrells are in fact too short.
As a further confirmation the difference you evaluated at .05� (1.27 mm) is not that different from the �somewhat less than 2 mm� I had evaluated confronting the Tamiya barrels with the scaled print out of the Internet available plans.
Considering measurement errors inherent in my procedure we should be very close.

This rules out using drilled out the Tamiya plastic barrels.

The Trumpeter BB55 plastic barrells are absolute junk (further discussion on the BB55 thread, if anyone needs it).
However the Lion Roar brass replacements, although supposedly 16�/45, look remarkably close to Steve�s 16�/50 barrels.

They miss the ring at blast bag junction, and one can not be confident (as one can with Steve�s products) about the taper being absolutely correct, but for anything else they look very close�.
So now I am in deep doubt about whether to save a few bucks (since I already own enough Lion Roar barrells) or go for absolute quality (Steve�s barrells).

May be a calipher measure of the terminal diameter of Steve�s barrels could resolve my doubt.
If you had time to check it, I will be very happy to know.
I suspect we could find that Steve�s barrels are also slightly larger than Tamiya counterparts.
I�ll measure the Lion Roar in the meantime, and let anyone know.

Hi Tom,
I had tried the same method of mounting the brass barrels + saving the blast bags that you suggested (more or less) using the Lion Roar barrel and a spare plastic one.
I ended up with an almost unusable bag, which leads me to suspect that at the base the LR are a bit too large for the intended use (or else I was less careful than you were�.).
I�ll try again more carefully. If I could have the Steve barrel diameter measure at blast bag junction that could help too.
About the flag bags what worries me is how to rebuild the "planked" deck area around the original location ...

BTW
I just receivedamong other goodies, a fret of Tom�s 12� & 16� P/E for portholes.
Did the Iowa class ships have them, or were there just plain port holes with no brows or shutters ?
If correct adding them would greatly enhance the build �
Ciao
Yours
Luca

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Luca,
Measurements you say???
Tamiya: .063" tip, .129" base of blastbag, 1.303" length from ring to tip
Nuttal: .067", .127" and 1.335" respectively
I used a dial caliper. None of that vernier stuff here!
None of that digital stuff either!

Regarding the air-port-holes:
They were 12" and 16" portholes, (according the the Floating Drydock plans), used on the Iowa's.
Using a p/e porthole by Tom's, won't be an option for me, so I get to join the countless others who/m have said at one time or another, "that would have been nice to use on my last Iowa Class build"!
"..and my Missouri aint even done yet"!
Eyebrows over the portholes you ask?
Let's see....

faithfully submited, Tony Bunch

[thathaway3]

It's been a while since I did them, but given that Tony measured .127", I'm pretty sure that I used a 1/8" bit (which is .125") since that was the closest, because I know I used a rat tail file to open the hole slightly after I'd drilled so that the barrels would just fit in.

I used a coping saw to cut the plastic barrel off at the blast bag which gave me a nice flat surface on which to drill.

My next step was to glue the blast bag in place on the turret and make sure it has plenty of time to dry and set up. You do NOT want that bag to start moving around on you.

Start with a much smaller bit to get a pilot hole started right in the center of the circle you get when you've cut off the plastic barrel. And even though it takes quite a bit of time to drill out nine holes, you will need to do this by hand. I've never been successful at using any powered drill in plastic, because no matter how slow you set it, it's still too fast and the friction winds up melting the plastic, not cutting it.

As I mentioned, the other thing I did was to take a retcangular piece of plastic, and drill three holes just large enough so that the tips of the barrels (the .063) will fit through, with the centerlines of the holes on a straight line and the exact same distance apart as the centerlines of the barrels on the turret. A good way to do that, is to start three pilot holes in one turret first before you drill it out so you have a good place to measure from.

This jig/template will allow you to keep the guns parallel as you secure them to the turret.

Tom

[Luca Bevilacqua]

Hi Tony, hi Tom, hi all,

first of all many thanks to Tony and Tom for the measuerements and the jigs tips.
I had figured most of the Tom's procedure myself but the holed plastic jig for keeping the barrells parallel. Great idea, thanks.

I measured the Lion Roar 16/45". Diameter at the tip is on par with Steve's barrells, but at the base thay are slightly larger (.13 mm or so).

Very little but enough to destoy the terminal part of the blast bags.
I suspect Steve chose to keep the base slighly smaller to make sure fitting would not destroy the blast bags.

At the end of the day I think I'll invest in Steve's barrells and keep the LR for future projects. I'll start saving.

Ciao
Yours
Luca

[ArizonaBB39]

Well my Iowa class bretheren. I took a lot, and I mean alot of pictures of the USS New Jersey when I was on board. As soon as I get them sorted and everything ill post them!

[thathaway3]

I don't think you'll be disappointed in Steve's barrels. I got a complete set to include 9 x 16" and 20 x 5". They really do enhance the look of the model.

Tom

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
One thing to remember about the 16"50 "three gun" turrets;
The barrels could be and were elevated individually, so the modeler is not required to keep all three barrels per turret aligned with each other. After studying a random 25 or so pics, ALL of the shots I saw were with all three barrels elevated the same. It's a modeler's decision to be sure. Tom's idea is an excellent one, if you want to display your model with the three barrels at the same elevation. Of course, the jig Tom mentioned is PARAMOUNT when considering the barrel>to>barrel>to>barrel spacing. I used Tom's very same procedure when "adapting" to the brass barrels...made sense to me.
Abram,
Cool!
Can't wait to get back to my 1/350th mo!
faithfully submitted, Tony Bunch

[Anonymous]

Hi all guys,
Tony kindly offered some pics of his modified bridge pieces....
That I could not see...

, well I finally brought my laptop home and connected without the f.. company's firewall.

Wow!! Tony what a great build.
I'll save every pic of it and regard it as a most useful guide, thanks.

I do not think I will be able to replicate what you did, tough.
It is just too great for my skills.

Just a question tough.
That is a BB63 I suppose.
What about Tom's resin for the Iowa ? what did you do to your BB61 ?

Cioa and thanks again

Yours
Luca

[Tony Bunch]

Hi Guys,
Luca,
My build is of Mighty Mo as she appeared during October 45.
She had her decks restored to the unpainted stage, and the entire hull was Navy Blue 5-N.
This is how she'll appear when completed. If I really get into it, and time permits; I may display Missouri with the white lettering on her hull sides. This would be as she appeared on Navy Day October 45; Hudson River. The display would have to include the USS Renshaw alongside Missouri; bringing aboard President Truman for a spell. USS Renshaw was a square bridge Fletcher class DD.
There are a few great pics of the pair of ships on that day in the Stillwell book..and elsewhere.
I did not like the thought of stenciling white letters, "like a Kindergartner", on the ships sides, but there would be no mistaking the event!

Iowa?
I believe the Toms' Resin bridge base needed the passageway, "installed", to be accurate. Better ask Mark Deakin.
I have not attacked this task personally.
Hope to help.
faithfully submitted, Tony Bunch