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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:49 pm 
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I am building the Joy-Yard 1/350 USS Missouri. I am toying with the idea of converting her to the Wisconsin circa late 1944, early 1945.
Any advise on the differences between these two would be greatly appreciated. I have checked most of the regular references.

Thanks, Harley


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:11 pm 
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tigerdvr wrote:
I am building the Joy-Yard 1/350 USS Missouri. I am toying with the idea of converting her to the Wisconsin circa late 1944, early 1945.
Any advise on the differences between these two would be greatly appreciated. I have checked most of the regular references.


There are not any major structural differences. However, you will likely find differences in details such as the position of 20mm guns and radar.

E.g., at the 02 level there is a platform designed for 2x20mm. However, the Wisconsin had three guns wedged in there from the beginning. I don't know if the Missouri did the same.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:30 am 
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what is the standard ww2 boot top width on the Iowa's?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:27 pm 
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DavidP wrote:
what is the standard ww2 boot top width on the Iowa's?


Waterline: 34'9-1/4"

IA/NJ: 17" above WL and 5' 6-1/2" below WL at the bow. 17" above WL and 12-1/2" below at the stern
MO/WI: 34' 9-1/4 below and 38' 2-3/4" above.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:54 pm 
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Interesting stuff - why was the boot top width different on some of the ships?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:16 pm 
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Ian Roberts wrote:
Interesting stuff - why was the boot top width different on some of the ships?


There is no reason given in the blueprints. However, one can imagine it was because the IA/NJ were lighter than the MO/WI. The former did not have as much armor and thicker plating was used in many places on the latter.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 3:55 am 
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A useful photo of the USS New Jersey transiting the Panama Canal in the 1980s. Probably early 1980s as later photos show her main gun turret roofs painted dark grey whereas they are still light grey here. It shows good detail of the colours of the anti-slip coating on her fantail. It looks pretty beaten up:
https://nara.getarchive.net/media/the-starboard-aft-section-of-the-battleship-uss-new-jersey-bb-62-during-its-e640a6?zoom=true

A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret. With it being trafficked by aircraft, boats, supplies etc and being bleached by sun and washed by sea spray repainting it must have been a frequently repeated job for her crew.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 23, 2020 6:15 pm 
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Navsource has this photo of her at that time listed as:
"The New Jersey (BB-62) passes through the Gaillard Cut during a transit of the canal, 27 April 1984."
The Kaman SH-2 Seasprite is onboard in the same location.

This would be on her way home from her deployment off the coast of Beirut, Lebanon.
She doesn't yet have the jettisonable fuel bladders installed in the port 40mm gun tub

http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/0162013.jpg

James


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:15 am 
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Very good, that would explain the wear and tear to the flight deck.

Her light grey main gun turret tops were repainted dark grey by the time of this photo in October 1986:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/016261.jpg

It was possibly done earlier than that but none of the photos from 1985 on the site clearly show the turret roofs.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:23 pm 
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The coating on the fantail is a rubber mat placed over the wood deck. Rather than repair the deck, it was covered with adhesive with the mat on top.


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:06 am 
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bigjimslade wrote:
The coating on the fantail is a rubber mat placed over the wood deck. Rather than repair the deck, it was covered with adhesive with the mat on top.
Are you referring to the helo pad or...
Mr. Church wrote:
A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret.
?

I don't have a real answer for why that particular paint was used in that spot. I know that later on, any paint on the wood was non-skid for that purpose, to keep people from slipping on it.

The helo pad is an elevated steel structure that has AFFF plumbing between it and the steel main deck.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:17 pm 
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Quote:
Mr. Church wrote:
A small section has been repainted in a medium grey immediately to starboard of her aft main gun turret.
?

I don't have a real answer for why that particular paint was used in that spot. I know that later on, any paint on the wood was non-skid for that purpose, to keep people from slipping on it.

The helo pad is an elevated steel structure that has AFFF plumbing between it and the steel main deck.


Thanks for the response. I imagine it was simply a localised patch repair pending a return to the shipyard for refitting? I gather the Lebanon Mission she was on took nearly a year so no doubt she badly needed repair and refitting after that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQB0_1_XRd8

The Iowa Class fantails look different in virtually every photo you see of them from the 1980s. Sometimes they look very dark almost black and other times they are at the lighter end of medium grey. Or sections of each together? Even when comparing photos taken in similar weather and where the deck is dry in each case. The material must have faded and been re-painted in sections at a time? Also interesting how all four ships had different areas of the fantail covered by the anti-slip coating.

I had to Google what AFFF was. Always wondered why the helipad was raised like that in the 1980's? Makes sense. Pity Tamiya didn't notice it when doing their 1/350 kits. The raised section is quite noticeable when you look at photos of the fantails.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2020 3:17 pm 
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The New Jersey's helipad was put in during the 1960's. I believe it is higher then the one on the others.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:14 pm 
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bigjimslade wrote:
The New Jersey's helipad was put in during the 1960's. I believe it is higher then the one on the others.


Jim,

Yes, I believe you are correct. However, I can't recall the exact height above the teak decking of the 1967 steel pad that was put down. I don't believe the 1981 refit removed that pad, only modified, extended, and updated what was already there.

Hope this helps,

Hank

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BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 10:37 pm 
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Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there were any significant differences between the Wisconsin and the Mighty Mo by the end of WWII. I've pored over pictures and as far as I can tell, the two were nearly identical, right down to the arrangement of bulkhead details. I was wondering anyone could confirm my suspicions?

Thanks!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:37 pm 
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The big air search radars were different: Mo had the SK-2 dish, while Wisky had the SK rectangular.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2020 10:54 am 
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The four IOWA class ships were NOT identical - not at their initial construction and not today. You might want to compare the conning towers of both ships (BB-63/BB-64) as they were "similar" in construction but not identical. The 08 Level and 011 Level were not constructed the same on these two ships (likewise with NEW JERSEY/IOWA). I would also compare the actual 40mm mounts and 20mm mounts on each ship as they might also have been different in total count. Placement of various ancillary items such as accommodation ladders, fueling hoses, removable davits, etc. would not necessarily been located on bulkheads identically - this was much a shipyard decision during construction as to where these items would be located/stowed.

As Timmy C. has mentioned, the masts/RADARs on both ships were not the same in 1945.

Hope this helps,

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS PENNSYLVANIA (BB-38) Late '40 1:200
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:23 am 
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NGaged wrote:
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if there were any significant differences between the Wisconsin and the Mighty Mo by the end of WWII. I've pored over pictures and as far as I can tell, the two were nearly identical, right down to the arrangement of bulkhead details. I was wondering anyone could confirm my suspicions?

Thanks!



Missouri received 4 MK-57 directors around spring 1945, 2 between forward MK-37 director and the forward director fire control tower, and 2 on the aft fire control tower behind the aft funnel. All the picture I’ve seen of the wisconsin in 1945 show she did not have them.

Missouri was built with sk-2 dish antenna on her foremast, Wisconsin was built with sk mattress antenna in the same location and didn’t receive an upgrade to sk-2 until after the war.

Wisconsin’s main top mast Behind the aft funnel was always significantly and noticeably taller than Missouri’s. Missouri only had an SG radar at the top of her main mast through out the war. Wisconsin Had an SC radar added on the top of her main mast Sometime between Jan and July 1945

Missouri has a TBS antenna mounted ahead of the SG radar platform on the main mast. On the Wisconsin the TBS antenna seems to be mounted on the yard arm under the SG radar.

Although both ships carried the same measure 22 camo pattern, the executions differ in detail: 1. The top of Missouri’s 5 inch gun houses were painted haze gray, somewhat against regulation. The tops of Wisconsin’s 5” gun houses were painted deck blue, as per regulation. 2. Missouri’s 16” barrels are painted uniform haze gray. Wisconsin’s countershaded with deck blue on top and haze gray on the bottom. 3. Missouri’s bollards are all painted navy blue. Wisconsin’s all haze gray.

The steam pipes feeding the whistle on the sides of the forward director tower are routed differently between the two ships.

At the back of the director tower, above where the tower joins with the fire funnel, there is a slot on the Missouri that allows the foremast to be lowered into it to enable the ship to pass under the Brooklyn bridge. I believe this slot is not there on the Wisconsin or New Jersey.

Missouri received a small platform on the Front the director tower for mouNting a TDY antenna in spring 1945. Wisconsin appears Not to have received a similar platform at the end of the war.

The boarding ladder stowed again the aft superstructure is stowed sitting on the deck on the Missouri. And affixed to the side of the superstructure some distance off the deck On the Wisconsin.

The bulwark behind the 20mm oerlikon tubs at the extreme bow of the Two ships are different. Wisconsin is built like the Iowa and New Jersey. The back side of the bulwark is longer and rounded off Compared to missouri.. Missouri’s bulwark is unique and squared off. The arrangement of wind deflecting Venturi on the front side of the tubs are also different.

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Last edited by chuck on Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 12:43 pm 
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CHANGING COMMAND OF FIFTH FLEET ON USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62)Tokyo Bay, 2/27/1946 https://catalog.archives.gov/id/80009

In color! Looks like NJ is painted in the neutral grays. You can also see Nagato in the background a few times. Credit to Jeff Sharp, who originally posted the link over on SN.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Thanks Martin! There are plenty more films there with some great footage. Here are some stills of Missouri entering Tokyo Bay.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image


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