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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2020 8:40 am 
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thanks, just what I needed


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:14 am 
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I wonder if someone would care to ID where / what location this gun was placed on Exeter?

Photos captioned as I received.

BTW; 'Dick' if you are reading this 1) thanks for posting that pic of York at bottom of previous page and 2) do you know what date that photo was taken? TIA!


Attachments:
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-PAPER.jpg
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-PAPER.jpg [ 168.04 KiB | Viewed 946 times ]
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-BW.jpg
1937-Press-Photo-HMS-Exeter-Cruiser-Gun-Fires-Salute-To-San-Francisco-Officials-BW.jpg [ 99.71 KiB | Viewed 946 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 6:35 am 
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Exeter's saluting guns were fitted on the after superstructure abreast the mainmast, two on each side. They are visible in Official U.S. Navy photo NH 60807 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Overhead_view_of_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_Panama_Canal_Zone_in_the_1930s.jpg).


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 26, 2020 8:25 am 
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tjstoneman wrote:
Exeter's saluting guns were fitted on the after superstructure abreast the mainmast, two on each side. They are visible in Official U.S. Navy photo NH 60807 (https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Overhead_view_of_HMS_Exeter_(68)_in_the_Panama_Canal_Zone_in_the_1930s.jpg).

Thanks for that Tim

Interestingly, and the reason I asked, is the pic I posted gives / gave (me) the impression that it was taken on the upper-deck level, as we seem to be looking over the deck railing directly onto the sea, as opposed to down onto the upper deck, as I thought we would be from where they are situated in the pic you linked to.

I guess it's just the angle of view / position the photographer was in - in what I posted - which gave me that impression as it were.

Again thanks.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:22 am 
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KevinD wrote:

BTW; 'Dick' if you are reading this 1) thanks for posting that pic of York at bottom of previous page and 2) do you know what date that photo was taken? TIA!


Sorry, I have no exact date. Photo was taken at Alexandria so it is sometime late September 1940 - March 1941. Given what the crew are wearing, I suspect closer to mid-winter.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:30 pm 
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I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?

Image

I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 5:35 pm 
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Are they reflections or just bulkhead features (piping, wiring, portholes) from "behind" the frames? If they were reflections, what would they be reflecting? An adjacent ship?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:12 pm 
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Yeah, looks weird to be a reflection, the images look more like doors or something on the inside. I guess I will not use “glass” in my model.

Marco


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 27, 2020 4:35 am 
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Marco wrote:
I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?

I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco

Hi Marco,

If there was glass in the windows on the sides of the upper bridge, then I have never seen it shown in any historical photos (or if there was, then the windows are always shown open), nor was any glass there on the wreck. Nor did we find any evidence of sliding panels that could have slide open / closed either. (However there were of course panes of glass around the open bridge, although on the wreck many had fallen out.)

The arrows in the collage below point to the relevant areas photographed on the wreck (note; as the u/w photos were taken with a 'fish-eye' lens there is some curvature in the u/w image on right.)

Image #2 is just a close up of the bridge in 1941.

However, and this is a general question to anyone, in image #3 also taken in 1941, what are the small lighter coloured 'circles' that we see ‘in’ (or behind?) three of the windows?


Attachments:
1 Exeter-bridge-windows.jpg
1 Exeter-bridge-windows.jpg [ 391.21 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]
2 Exeter-Bridge.jpg
2 Exeter-Bridge.jpg [ 190.64 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]
3 Bridge-windows.jpg
3 Bridge-windows.jpg [ 191.95 KiB | Viewed 569 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 12:51 am 
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Was there an inner bulkhead with scuttles behind the open frames ?
This perception of glassed windows is also reproduced in many incorrect renditions of Leander class cruisers. The RAN modified Leander class also had open frames with an open avenue between the inner wall and outer skin, I expect Exeter may have been the same.
Even though these scuttles were in shadow, at just the right angle they would reflect light, I have seen stranger things.
Could this not be reflections of those inner scuttles? as per the attachment of Leander.


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LEANDER INNER WHEELHOUSE WALL.jpg
LEANDER INNER WHEELHOUSE WALL.jpg [ 72.63 KiB | Viewed 513 times ]
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 4:07 am 
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I had the same thought. Plus, I do not know what type of sighting equipment on a lower bridge level would 'fit' the height/position of these three spots.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 7:58 am 
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Brett Morrow wrote:
Was there an inner bulkhead with scuttles behind the open frames?
This perception of glassed windows is also reproduced in many incorrect renditions of Leander class cruisers. The RAN modified Leander class also had open frames with an open avenue between the inner wall and outer skin, I expect Exeter may have been the same.
Even though these scuttles were in shadow, at just the right angle they would reflect light, I have seen stranger things.
Could this not be reflections of those inner scuttles? as per the attachment of Leander.

Re my now underlined above Brett; the answer is (partly) yes, there is a walkway / companionway of what looks to be about 3ft / 1mt wide between those outer 'windows' and the inner bulkhead on Exeter.

However, I'll have to have a play with some of my u/w photos to see if I can bring out some better detail on that inner bulkhead, as that side (port) of the wreck was facing upwards (as she lay on her stbd side), thus silt had built up on it, so nothing readily discernible at first glance to tell if there are scuttles along there on not. Personally I would assume so, but that's just a wild WAG.

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 8:13 am 
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And the answer, even without looking further into the u/w photos, is; yes there are scuttles in that inner bulkhead.

They actually can be seen in an enhanced crop of the photo Marco posted above. :thumbs_up_1:


Attachments:
Inner scuttles Exeter bridge.jpg
Inner scuttles Exeter bridge.jpg [ 51.38 KiB | Viewed 468 times ]

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We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:21 am 
I know that the answer has/appears to have been arrived at but for what my small amount of change is worth: I would not disagree with Brett Morrow. If the background beyond the photographer is a "big sky" one and the scuttles in the screen of the superstructure inside the "gallery" (possibly part of the flag deck) were closed, the glass in them could well reflect back lighter than the surface they are in. This can be seen in the effect of some of the scuttles in the hull: one or two appear black (open), the other appear lighter (closed).

EJ Foeth questions another possibility; which is some form of sighting equipment in the location: maybe but I believe that unlikely.
The only alternative that I would have offered is that they are reflections of what were known as Kent Clear View screen windows in windows that were later removed; which EXETER had at the forward end of the bridge but then the square pane of the remainder of the glass would also have reflected.

I am afraid that I can't find any good pictures of EXETER in any of my references that would be of help: plenty of her sister-ship (different bridge superstructure). Whatever, the as fitted drawings would be able to confirm or perhaps the ship has an association website that might be of help.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2020 11:50 pm 
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My first thought also was the "clear view screen" window:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_view_screen

These were developed in the mid 1930s so they could have been installed. But they were normally on the forward facing windows on an enclosed bridge. If they had been installed the glass around them would also reflect light about the same.

Some ships had windows that hinged up and latched to the overhead. Bus in the US Navy only every other window hinged up and the windows between were fixed.

Open bridges with no protection from the elements were common before and during WWII. Sometimes they had a few glass or plastic windows on the forward facing part, but I can tell you from experience that these don't help much in foul weather!

The side "gallery" as someone called it is an open bridge used during docking, underway replenishment, personnel high lining, or any other operation requiring close maneuvering.

Of all the guesses I have seen I think reflections from air ports (port holes) on the inner bulkhead is the most likely.

Phil

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 11:53 am 
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KevinD wrote:
Marco wrote:
I noticed somebody adding simulated glass to the bridge windows of an HMS Exeter scale model (another forum). Somebody else remarked that those windows did not have any, and I nodded, of course, I "knew". But now, I am in doubt, after looking at this picture, I see reflection from "glass" ?

I guess these windows had glass that could be opened (to the inside?) or am I wrong? Would be a nice detail to put some sheets of "glass" to some of the windows.

Marco

Hi Marco,

If there was glass in the windows on the sides of the upper bridge, then I have never seen it shown in any historical photos (or if there was, then the windows are always shown open), nor was any glass there on the wreck. Nor did we find any evidence of sliding panels that could have slide open / closed either. (However there were of course panes of glass around the open bridge, although on the wreck many had fallen out.)

The arrows in the collage below point to the relevant areas photographed on the wreck (note; as the u/w photos were taken with a 'fish-eye' lens there is some curvature in the u/w image on right.)

Image #2 is just a close up of the bridge in 1941.

However, and this is a general question to anyone, in image #3 also taken in 1941, what are the small lighter coloured 'circles' that we see ‘in’ (or behind?) three of the windows?


Well thank you for those details! I didn´t know there was glass installed on the open bridge (too tiny to issue in 1/350). I guess the effect of having some structure inside the bridge will provide the desired effect.

By the way, I see that the inner part of doors open on the HMS Exeter are white, but it seems like the interior of the bridge was sort of light or medium blue, is this true? No clue at all.

Marco


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 11:16 am 
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Another doubt I have, about the triangular reinforcements around the barbettes. I know that the ones molded in Trumpeter's kit are wrong, thanks to this forum, but I see there are differences in number and position of the reinforcements between the barbettes of the front turrets. The front turret seems to have 12, sort of even-spaced reinforcement, while the second turret is missing at least one lateral reinforcement, there is a box there instead, and the spacing does not seem to be even, more separated. Not trying to complicate my life, but worth checking. I haven´t been able to find any other good picture of that area. Any thoughts?

Image

Marco


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 07, 2020 10:57 pm 
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And now I realize, that the barbette of the second turret is taller than the one from the front turret... well, that I will not correct, next time.

Marco


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:42 am 
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Marco wrote:
Another doubt I have, about the triangular reinforcements around the barbettes. I know that the ones molded in Trumpeter's kit are wrong, thanks to this forum, but I see there are differences in number and position of the reinforcements between the barbettes of the front turrets. The front turret seems to have 12, sort of even-spaced reinforcement, while the second turret is missing at least one lateral reinforcement, there is a box there instead, and the spacing does not seem to be even, more separated. Not trying to complicate my life, but worth checking. I haven´t been able to find any other good picture of that area. Any thoughts?

Image

Marco

Hi Marco, all,

Thank you for that photo, it is a great surprise for me! I hadn't seen that at all, only of the forward and rear barbettes.

What I'm now guessing from this photo: the 'B' barbette has eight supports, not in the 'cardinal' positions but in between those, and not evenly spaced. They must of course link up to some structure below the deck - which we have no information on at this moment. And you are right that it is also slightly higher than the 'A' barbette.

Any other views?

Maarten

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:37 am 
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Maarten Schönfeld wrote:
Any other views?
Maarten


Attachments:
Turrets-1.jpg
Turrets-1.jpg [ 347.94 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]
Turrets-2.jpg
Turrets-2.jpg [ 336.89 KiB | Viewed 138 times ]

_________________
We are off to look for trouble. I expect we shall find it.” Capt. Tennant, HMS Repulse. 8 December 1941
A review of the situation at about 1100 was not encouraging.” Capt. Gordon, HMS Exeter. 1 March 1942
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