SeanF wrote:
Thanks for sharing that article, Egilman. Sums it all up pretty well, though apparently it's vastly more common in texting circles - which I seldom do either, so the few people I've seen do it in e-mails or message board posts really stand out to me. The biggest surprise is that I would never have made the association with older individuals being more prone to ellipsis use than younger ones!
On the subject of the Hammondsport photo, have any thoughts? I suppose there might be a cloud casting a shadow over the Arizona's mainmast; but barring that, both the darkness and the more neutral color tone relative to the Hammondsport's definite blue tone really lends to 5-D. Though I have heard the argument that Arizona was only partially re-painted as of Dec. 7, and maybe the mainmast and boat cranes hadn't been done yet?
- Sean F.
I don't know, Sean, it just seems natural to me, besides I'm always thinking while I type so according to the article I'm one of those where everything types represents an incomplete thought... And it is much more common than not.... Another example of how the internet and it's capabilities are upturning all the old rules of communication....
As far as the Hammondsport, she is clearly in 5-N the pic dates to June-July '42, and the colors on the AZ in the background match pretty closely to the Hammondsport..... but we know the AZ was never in 5-N... We also have picture proof of a ship we know was in 5-D appearing quite blue, the USS California.... We also know that the 5-D used on the Pacflt was composite 5-D, mixed from standard navy grey and blue-black tinting paste to use up the large quantities of standard pre-war navy grey..... Which chalked and faded rather quickly.... and could be the reason that aged 5-D photographs as dark blue.... Tinting pastes are very powerful colorants....
On the other hand we have crewmembers reporting that she was repainted, at least the areas they were responsible for being painted as blue... and that large quantities of said blue paint were loaded on the ship around the time of her collision repair... one crew member, Lauren Bruener called it "Mediterraneen Blue" (which was never a color used on a US Navy ship) and when offered samples of the colors actually painted on the ships picked out 5-S as the color....
The order or memo which Tracy talks about, keeping enough 5-D for one hull repaint and then substituting 5-S for 5-D as quantities on hand allowed I have actually read... And it explains how officially that all the battleships, (some of which were clearly in 5-S) maintained their Measure 2 scheme and still be in 5-S....
There is no "official" document that states such though, and the only evidence we have after the fact that clearly shows the AZ's color are the life magazine photos of Admiral Radfords flag raisings on the AZ ten years after the fact which clearly and unabashedly show her in bright blue.... so bright in fact that it is hard to argue color shift since the greens are green the reds are clearly reds the white uniforms are white with no tingeing of blue...
The preponderance of evidence leans strongly to the idea that the AZ at some point was repainted in 5-S and was very fresh at the time of the attack...
Most people read this preponderance the same way my logical mind does... but like Tracy and Rick and Mr Doyle and most of the people who have done the deep dive into the archives, without any document directly on point, it can't be said beyond a shadow of doubt....
But we have enough in my opinion that I have changed my opinion to she was in 5-S. The last pic I have seen that has her dark is the one when she is in drydock being repaired in November, there is the pic of her returning from her gunnery practice two days before the attack December 5th, in the harbor channel, and has her in much lighter shades.....
Not a smoking gun I know, but enough to change my opinion....
People who know a whole lot more than me have come to the same conclusion, as evidenced by the color of the "official" model at the memorial.. And I've read an oral account of one of the survivors when visiting and seeing that model brought tears to his eyes and a comment that "they finally got it right"
My opinion is that she was in a fresh coat of blue in Ms.2 scheme retaining her haze grey tops the day of the attack... Not an absolute, and everyone is free to come to the conclusion they wish, but to me the weight of the evidence we do have, agrees with this view...
I hope that clarifies my thoughts on the matter....