Calling all Gato-class (SS-212) fans

[Joe Ellias]

3D designer DiStefan of Shapeways makes propeller guards.

[Gewehr_43]

3D designer DiStefan of Shapeways makes propeller guards.

Fantastic, thank you. I think I will still build the kit as the Gato this round. I've got the 1944 kit coming soon and will use the WEM PE and possibly the prop guards on that instead. I also have the Nautilus weapons coming too, so I should be able to spruce up the later-model kit pretty well.

As the early model is only my second ship kit, I'm cutting my teeth on it before going a little more in depth on the 1944 version.

[Tom Dougherty]

The all purpose reference to US Fleet submarine outfitting during WWII
http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829294.pdf and
http://navsource.org/archives/08/pdf/0829295.pdf

[KevinD]

With regards the discovery several months ago of the wreck of the WWII submarine USS Robalo, I have a question, which may be off topic so to speak on a modeling forum, but should one or more of you modelers want to build said sub 'as sunk', well................................

But first, regret and respect for the subs lost crew, and condolences to their families. May (let's hope) Robalo now rest forever undisturbed On Eternal Patrol! And congratulations to the team that found and first dived her.

A short video of the wreck can be seen here https://youtu.be/whNrzuPp5x8

And my question is; what is that rather odd looking 'fitting / object' just aft of the sail (conning tower) that starts to come into view in the video at about 0.55, and is basically directly abreast at 1.09?

Or see it in screen grab below.

TIA.

[Tom Dougherty]

It looks as if most of the aft portion of the fairwater was either destroyed or has decayed.

The lower object looks like the main air induction valve, and the cage like structure with the round hole looks to be the support mount for the gun mounted on the cigarette deck. The main induction was immediately below the aft cigarette deck.

[KevinD]

Decayed outer casing on cigarette deck exposing main induction valve seems to be the consensus elswhere also. Thanks!

[ushono]

I'm doing Lindbergs 1/240 Gato SS212. It is lacking well... a lot of detail. It has no forward or aft torpedo tubes. I am debating on getting the sail from shapeways to correct that. But my problem either A. scratch build them.Mind i say i am fairly new to all this ( just getting back in the hobby after years) or is there a way to 3D print the sections of hull i need to correct it. Or C. just build it as is. I need someone to make my mind up for me.

[Timmy C]

Build the Lindberg kit as-is, using it as a way to hone/refresh your skills. Then get a more accurate and detailed modern kit to do be the model you want to show off.

[ushono]

I guess.. I drives me insane knowing there is no torpedo tubs. I am working on Revell's USS Lionfish as well in 1/200 scale. That one is going ok. I am trying to learn scratch build it's a hard topic for me there is soooooooooo much to know. I am not a real creative person to begin with. I usually look at what other people are doing and see what they are doing. But this model is abysmal.

[Tom Dougherty]

The actual scale for Lionfish is 1/178; box scale. The kit was originally Flasher, a Gato class, then issued as Growler, also Gato, and the kit is woefully incorrect for Lionfish, a Balao class with a very different conning tower fairwater. There are several options for much improved and correct conning towers, such as the ones available on Shapeways.

But other problems with the kit are also apparent. The two screws have the same pitch, rather than opposite pitches. The deck is early Gato, with the below deck boat storage that was only on a handful of Gatos before it was deleted. The limber holes are the wrong pattern; the only sub to have that pattern was Gato herself, later in the war. Overall, there are much superior kits available now than this venerable 1960�s �close enough for kids� kit.

If you are just returning to modeling, I would recommend against trying to fix the largely unfixable issues for someone just restarting. Build it as is out of box to practice assembly skills. Things such as removing flash, using putty, and sanding. Also you can use it to try out your painting skills. All of those things would prepare you to take on a more accurate kit such as those listed. Good luck and welcome back!

[ArmchairAdmiral]

Doing a little photographic detective work and looking for confirmation of my conclusion. This is a photograph from HyperWar labeled as the USS Rock, SS-274.


The picture indicates no AA armament platform at the front of the fairwater. NavSource has several other pics that show such a platform on Rock, including that she was launched with one in place. So that rules out this being Rock with a Mod 2A fairwater, which I think was discontinued before she entered service.

I have seen some photos taken at such an angle that it makes the forward AA platform almost disappear, but not quite this cleanly. Therefore, my conclusion is that this is a picture of Rock that has had the forward AA platform censored, for whatever reason.

[Ian Roberts]

Doing a little photographic detective work and looking for confirmation of my conclusion. This is a photograph from HyperWar labeled as the USS Rock, SS-274.


The picture indicates no AA armament platform at the front of the fairwater. NavSource has several other pics that show such a platform on Rock, including that she was launched with one in place. So that rules out this being Rock with a Mod 2A fairwater, which I think was discontinued before she entered service.

I have seen some photos taken at such an angle that it makes the forward AA platform almost disappear, but not quite this cleanly. Therefore, my conclusion is that this is a picture of Rock that has had the forward AA platform censored, for whatever reason.

How sure are you that this photo is indeed of ROCK? As you note, the fairwater is intact (forward) on the photo -- all the photos I can find of ROCK show the forward platform cut down and prepped for 20mm installation. I personally have never seen evidence of censors retouching submarine fairwaters (though I'm sure it's possible).

[Vepr157]

Doing a little photographic detective work and looking for confirmation of my conclusion. This is a photograph from HyperWar labeled as the USS Rock, SS-274.


The picture indicates no AA armament platform at the front of the fairwater. NavSource has several other pics that show such a platform on Rock, including that she was launched with one in place. So that rules out this being Rock with a Mod 2A fairwater, which I think was discontinued before she entered service.

I have seen some photos taken at such an angle that it makes the forward AA platform almost disappear, but not quite this cleanly. Therefore, my conclusion is that this is a picture of Rock that has had the forward AA platform censored, for whatever reason.

It seems much more likely to me that this is a boat with the "Mod 2A" fairwater that was mislabeled as the Rock. Mislabeling photos isn't unheard of. For example, this photo is often said to be the Barb:



Wikipedia says she's the Barb, and there are photos signed by Eugene Fluckey himself:



But if you look at the limber hole pattern, she is clearly not the .

[ArmchairAdmiral]

If it was a 2A, wouldn't there appear to be less space between the gun and the fairwater from that angle? Similar to this:
http://navsource.org/archives/08/183/0825916.jpg

The amount of space between the two in the "Rock" photo is one of the things that made me think it had been altered. I believe I originally saw the photo--or one very much like it--in HT Lenton's "American Submarines." Don't have the book handy, but I do recall the photo leading me to chop the forward AA platform off a sub model I was working on at the time....

Edit: Just found this pic, labeled as USS Hake, on uboat.net which also seems to me to have the forward AA position edited out:

[Vepr157]

Interesting, it's surprising that they would airbrush the forward gun out.

[ArmchairAdmiral]

I'd be interested in finding any articles or other online resources about the "art" of doctored naval photos. So far my searches have just turned up the general subject of military censorship during WW2 and what was allowed to be reported.

[Max61]

Would anyone know what the size of the exhaust ports were in diameter?
Thanks in advance.

[Tom Dougherty]

The exact size? No. I searched through the manuals I have and could find no definitive number for the exhaust diameter.

But, you can probably derive a reasonable estimate from these photos. My guesstimate is 12-14 inches.

[Vepr157]

Max,

You might be able to find some good information on the Pampanito drawing repository:

https://maritime.org/tech/drawings/

These two drawings show the exhaust system and the lists of pipes:

https://maritime.org/tech/drawings/engi ... 1-0168.jpg
https://maritime.org/tech/drawings/engi ... 9-0139.jpg

It looks like the exhaust pipes that come out of the mufflers (e.g. pipes C-25 and C-49) have an outer diameter of 16-3/8".

Jacob

[Woodstock74]

Not 100% sure where to put this, as I'm not sure if the sub in question was a Gato, or a Balao, or what, but what was the most heavily armed USN Fleet Boat during WWII? I seem to recall one that was armed with a deck 5" both fore and aft? Or maybe it was a 40 mm and a 5", along with the usual 20 mm on the sail? I think I recall the sub captains experimenting in the field with alternate AAA/armament arrangements, though not certain what was feasible (I mean, how easily could an additional 5" deck gun have been installed, was there even the reinforcement in the deck for the mount?)? I also seem to recall options, fore/aft, as to where the single 5" could go? So clearly you could do that, should you be able to procure an extra 5"? Anyhow, contemplating an armed-to-the-teeth what-if with an extra Gato AFV Club kit I have laying around.