The Ship Model Forum

The Ship Modelers Source
It is currently Mon Sep 20, 2021 3:07 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2526 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 123, 124, 125, 126, 127  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 3:32 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:35 pm
Posts: 574
Location: Brittany, France
What is the purpose of these chains? Paravans? Tk.

Image

Image

_________________
Pascal

•SS Nomadic: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=311395
•USS Pamanset: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=305869
•USS Hornet: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=306241


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 5:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 4:59 pm
Posts: 269
Location: Colorado
I am also curious about this topic -- I know from studying booklets of general plans that the chains running from the open chocks at the bow down to the paravane gear forefoot at the base of the stem are "paravane downhaul chains", but I have not yet seen any kind of diagram or procedure for "how" the paravanes were streamed. I'm hoping some of the more knowledgeable folks on this board can shed some light!


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Apr 18, 2021 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 3092
Iceman, you might want to replace the 3 loop cable near the deck as should be thinner as all those cables are for the use of the paravanes.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB39/BOGP/
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... /BOGP.html


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 12:35 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:35 pm
Posts: 574
Location: Brittany, France
Hello David, it’s not my model, found this example on internet.

I know for the paravans cables . My question is about chains.

_________________
Pascal

•SS Nomadic: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=311395
•USS Pamanset: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=305869
•USS Hornet: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=306241


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 11:26 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:19 am
Posts: 21
Hi,
picture from https://archives.imeche.org/archive/institution-history/first-world-war/paravanes?ipage=3:
Image

Info/quote from http://www.kbismarck.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8736
Most ships have two continuous loops of chain passing down from either side of the bow through a ring at the forefoot of the bow. A tow wire to the paravane is shackled to a loop at the bow and then the looped chain chain pulled through to take the towpoint down to the forefoot...
A chain or heavy wire takes a towpoint for the paravanes down the ship's bow to the forefoot and the vane flies through the water, with its tow-wire going back from the bow at maybe 30-35 deg to the centreline...

Rigging on the deck http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&hilit=contour+gauge&start=1860#p736085
Image

http://www.shipmodels.info/mws_forum/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=12942&start=2320#p824323
Image

My understanding is when paravans are on the deck, then rigging looks exactly like at these photos. However, when paravans are in the water in their "working positions", then long rigging line pulling the paravan chain will be on the right, while short rigging line will be on the left. Am I correct?

66misos


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2021 3:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2020 4:35 pm
Posts: 574
Location: Brittany, France
Yes, tks 66misos!

I think this chain system allows to replace the paravane cable when it is broken, the fitting under the bow is brought back on board thanks to the chain, the new cable can then be passed back in the loop which is on the chain, then it is enough to pull on the chain of the opposite edge to lower the loop under the bow. There is of course another system for the other side.

Image

_________________
Pascal

•SS Nomadic: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=311395
•USS Pamanset: viewtopic.php?f=13&t=305869
•USS Hornet: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=306241


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 5:37 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:19 am
Posts: 21
Hi,
what was, please, the color of the canvas on the USS Arizona before/during attack on the PH?

1. Canvas on the main guns? It looks dark on the photos, but interpreted usually very bright, almost white on the kits (see pictures several posts above)
2. Canvas as a sun protection? It looks very bright (light grey? tan?...)
Attachment:
pict01x.jpg
pict01x.jpg [ 287.51 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]

3. Canvas covering AA guns? It looks lighter than canvas on the main guns, but darker than the sun protection canvas.
Attachment:
zBB39x36-8Nov41.lr_zpsre8w0gw8.jpg
zBB39x36-8Nov41.lr_zpsre8w0gw8.jpg [ 94.81 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]

Thank you.
66misos


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10166
Location: EG48
Any "bright" canvas would be natural canvas. There was an effort to dye canvas blue for camouflage purposes that started in the summer/fall of 1941 (I haven't researched this fully, just some "spray" of documents I came across looking for camouflage in general) but if it's bright, it hasn't been dyed yet.

There was painted canvas but the directives generally called for this in areas where the canvas was exposed to exhaust fumes (think the searchlights on the aft tripod). This was painted a light gray, but I don't have the documentation in front of me and can't remember if it was #5 Standard Navy Gray or another light gray that looked more like natural canvas.

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
In the Nov. '41 drydock photo above, you can see her #1 casemate opening for the 5" 51cal gun. Her canvas covering is rolled up above the opening and appears very light. However, this 4/1/41 pic shows the canvas cover of her #2 casemate. This is the first casemate on the port side just aft of her #2 turret. This pic suggests that at least the casemate coverings were not light. I'm wondering if the outside of the canvas was painted to match the ship but the inside was left unpainted.

Image

Image


Last edited by Jeff Sharp on Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2021 10:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 17, 2009 2:12 pm
Posts: 3092
the photograph & the plan are of the port side not starboard as you can see the tailend of the paravane mounted on #2 14" barbette close to #2 5"51cal gun.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 12:56 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 11:02 am
Posts: 10166
Location: EG48
Jeff Sharp wrote:
I'm wondering if the outside of the canvas was painted to match the ship but the inside was left unpainted.


Posting the documentation I have for now:

Attachment:
1935-1-19 Canvas Painting 01.jpg
1935-1-19 Canvas Painting 01.jpg [ 156.81 KiB | Viewed 978 times ]

_________________
Tracy White -Researcher@Large

"Let the evidence guide the research. Do not have a preconceived agenda which will only distort the result."
-Barbara Tuchman


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 11:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
DavidP wrote:
the photograph & the plan are of the port side not starboard as you can see the tailend of the paravane mounted on #2 14" barbette close to #2 5"51cal gun.

Oops! Got my left and right confused!

Here is a look at the canvas casemate covers on 1/23/41. This is the starboard side aft most casemate #9. Still very light at that time.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2021 5:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
Here is some more Arizona fun!
This shot is a horribly colorized still from the 4/1/41 film aboard Arizona. Looking past the awful color choices, this shot is very clear and shows very nicely how they tied down the Kingfishers while at sea.
Image

Black and white version for comparison.
Image

An interesting side note about this footage. Arizona left Pearl with only two of her three kingfishers aboard. For some reason she left 1-O-1 at Pearl. I often wondered why the film only showed two planes with her. Combing through USS Pennsylvania's deck logs during this time I came across some info about that missing plane.
On March 31st USS Pennsylvania was at Pearl and at 0800 hoisted aboard plane 1-O-1 then left Pearl to meet up with the rest of BATDIV 1 and 3 for exercises.
Image

On April 1st, flight exercises were conducted and Pennsylvania launched her three planes and 1-O-1.
Image

Upon completion of the flight exercises, 1-O-1 rejoined USS Arizona.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:14 am 
Shade of the canvas over casemates corresponds quite well with the surrounding light grey, at least at bw photos.
Here it looks pretty clean:
Image
while here it already looks more dirty and greasy:
Image

For comparison - canvas at the first two ships seems to be still in natural color, while canvas at the last two ships is already dyed blue:
Image


Top
  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:19 am
Posts: 21
Hi, the post above is mine. I was surprised by this feature of the forum - to post without being logged in. I browsed through the forum and did not realized that I was not logged in. It only asked my some question and it was done. Pretty interesting.


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:23 pm 
Online
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:00 pm
Posts: 11588
Location: Calgary, AB/Surrey, B.C., Canada
Yes, guests may post on the forum, but all posts have to be manually approved by moderators before they show up.

_________________
De quoi s'agit-il?


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Jul 16, 2021 8:42 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
Between the dates of Sept. 13 and Sept. 23, 1940 USS Arizona was moored at Pearl Harbor for the final time that year. She would sail for the States on Sept.23 to receive her final refit at Puget Sound. Here are a series of photos of her during those 10 days at Pearl. She is moored at Berth F-7 outboard of USS Colorado. Ahead of her at F-6 is USS Idaho outboard of USS Tennessee. Aft of her at F-8 is USS Mississippi outboard of USS Nevada. USS West Virginia was at Berth F-5.
A rowing crew belonging to USS West Virginia rows right up to the hull of USS Arizona capturing some nice looks at her.

Image
Image

Main deck showing the projector booth with the loud speaker scaffolding stowed up against it.
Image

USS Arizona's midships.
Image

USS Arizona's bow with the stern of USS Tennessee ahead. Notice the port hole in the lower right. It has bars on it indicating the location of the ship's brig.
Image

USS Arizona's stern with USS Nevada behind.
Image

USS Mississippi and USS Nevada.
Image
Image

USS Idaho and USS Tennessee with USS Arizona behind. Notice in the 2nd picture USS Tennessee already has her MK19 directors installed.
Image
Image

USS West Virginia at F-5 with USS Idaho and USS Tennessee behind.
Image

USS Arizona and USS New Mexico sailing for the States on Sept. 23, 1940.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 4:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
After a quick two week stay in Long Beach, CA., Arizona finally made it to Puget Sound on Oct.21, 1940 for her final refit. This pic of her is dated Nov. 4, 1940. Besides one, there are no visible changes to her appearance yet and it is probably the last photograph of her before the refit commenced. There is however some sort of structure on the back side of her forward most tripod leg just behind the ship's bell. Not sure what that is yet. Maybe just a work shed?
Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 8:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 10:15 pm
Posts: 876
Another Arizona sighting. This one is a crop of a much larger photo dated 10/3/41. She is moored at F-7 with USS Nevada behind her at F-8.
Image


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 05, 2021 7:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:40 pm
Posts: 7502
Location: New Jersey
Nice. Can you post to the NV/OK thread as well?

_________________
Martin

"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." John Wayne

Ship Model Gallery


Top
 Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 2526 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 123, 124, 125, 126, 127  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests


You can post new topics in this forum
You can reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group