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 Post subject: Queston for the audience
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 11:39 am 
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I am trying to do some illustrations where I face the problem of understandability trading off against precision. The more precise I get, the more cluttered things become, and the less understandable things are.

I ask the folks here, would you consider this sufficient detail to gain an understanding of the layout of a fire room? If not, what more would you like to see?

Attachment:
ViewCapture20210510_232054.jpg
ViewCapture20210510_232054.jpg [ 125.69 KiB | Viewed 1005 times ]


Attachment:
ViewCapture20210510_232255.jpg
ViewCapture20210510_232255.jpg [ 369.16 KiB | Viewed 1005 times ]


Normally, I would use a deck plan to describe ship layout but there are thirteen levels in the fire room and I find that a 2D representation is just too confusing.


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 12:11 pm 
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Jim:

Those remind me of the photos of the ship under construction! Some additional detail would help flesh out the apparent functionality of the components. I wonder if the layout of Sacramento's Fire room changed from the Iowa (Kentucky?) from which it was robbed. I presume that is a shaft on the left of the photo underneath the boilers?

Regards: Tom


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:48 pm 
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Fliger747 wrote:
Those remind me of the photos of the ship under construction! Some additional detail would help flesh out the apparent functionality of the components. I wonder if the layout of Sacramento's Fire room changed from the Iowa (Kentucky?) from which it was robbed. I presume that is a shaft on the left of the photo underneath the boilers?


Yes, the one shaft is at the port side. The lower level has a lot of pumps. that would then need pipes to make sense. Then there would be pipes all over.

I should add, that there will be photographs to go with this. These models are primarily to show where the photographs were taken.


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:02 pm 
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Jim,

Your 3D model photos remind me of the engineering section models that were made for USS NORTH CAROLINA (BB-55) - they are displayed with the 1/96 model of the ship and are section cuts of the ship's hull showing all the various decks and machinery. Each one is mounted with a Plexiglas cover to keep "little hands" from messing with things. It's been quite a few years since I was aboard BB-55, so I'm under the impression that those are still on display.

Your 3D model is very nicely done - if there are any pumps, motors, etc. that you've left out - go ahead and add them - usually with pumps there is a flange that belongs to the pump on all inlet/outlet piping, so you could show the pump w/flanges and let it go at that (i.e. no piping). Just a suggestion!

Hank

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USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
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USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
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 Post subject: Parorama v. Separate
PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 8:38 pm 
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Let me ask another format question. There are a lot of very tight places. Would people find separate photographs like this:

Attachment:
0 P1050342 3d Deck Boiler Room 2.jpg
0 P1050342 3d Deck Boiler Room 2.jpg [ 296.43 KiB | Viewed 957 times ]

Attachment:
0 P1060027 Fire RM 2 Side of Boiler.jpg
0 P1060027 Fire RM 2 Side of Boiler.jpg [ 253.74 KiB | Viewed 957 times ]


or a panorama like this:

Attachment:
0 IMG_6650.jpg
0 IMG_6650.jpg [ 329.63 KiB | Viewed 957 times ]


To be the better representation?

The separate photographs are clearer but the panorama gives an overview.
(Keep in mind these have been reduced greatly in size for posting here.)


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 7:54 pm 
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Hi All,

I not a big poster, but have been lurking on the site for about a year now.

I just recently purchased the Trumpeter 1/200 Iowa as well as the Pontos detail up set and the advanced detail set containing the Veteran Models bofors. I am working on creating a build sheet to follow, instead of following the Trumpeter directions from front to back. While reviewing all directions (kit & Pontos), I noticed that the Pontos directions do not provide directions for each and every part in the detail set. For example, there are water tight doors of various designs in the Pontos set, but no instructions on where each door design is to be placed on each deck level.

My question: Is there an updated or additional set of directions for the Pontos set showing where these various doors are to be used on each deck level? Or, do I just need to make a note of where each door design should be used prior to removing the kit detail?

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 10:04 pm 
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Pontos has the latest instructions posted on their website - if it's not on there, then they don't have it and you'll have to do your own homework on the issue:
Bare teak deck: http://pontosmodel.com/html/23004f1.html
Blue deck: http://pontosmodel.com/html/23005f1.html

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 11:54 pm 
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Your 3D drawings are superb. It is easy to see what you mean by the view could get awfully cluttered with more detail. In the interest of clarity for those very unfamiliar with a fire room, perhaps in addition to the overall view, another simplified view with features color-coded for easier identification?

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:28 pm 
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Timmy C wrote:
Pontos has the latest instructions posted on their website - if it's not on there, then they don't have it and you'll have to do your own homework on the issue:
Bare teak deck: http://pontosmodel.com/html/23004f1.html
Blue deck: http://pontosmodel.com/html/23005f1.html


Thanks Timmy, wasn’t quite sure I was looking in the right place on the Pontos site. Apparently I was.

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Current builds:

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Trumpeter 1/200 USS Iowa BB-61 w/Pontos 1944 Detail-up and Advanced add-on sets


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 1:58 pm 
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The Engineering plants from Illinois and Kentucky new split with 1/2 of each ships plant (2 shafts) going to the AOE's of the Sacramento Class. I wonder if the components were used but re arranged within a newly designed Engineering box? I did have some minor underway time aboard this ship, but never ventured into the Engineering spaces. She was fitted with a large set of six blade props, pitched (it appears) somewhat more finely than the Iowa's. Also interesting she appeared to be fitted with a dual acting rudder, the upper portion out of the prop wash, turned in the opposite direction? The photo angle did not allow good clarity on this. The prop shafting appeared to have a considerable vertical angling which might be related to the machinery being placed far aft and the hull form.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:19 am 
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Fliger747 wrote:
The Engineering plants from Illinois and Kentucky new split with 1/2 of each ships plant (2 shafts) going to the AOE's of the Sacramento Class. I wonder if the components were used but re arranged within a newly designed Engineering box? .


It is likely. Even on Iowa-class each engine room is laid out differently because the gearbox/turbine-pair assembly is aligned with the propeller shaft. The relative positions of the gearbox/turbine/main condenser stay the same. The arrangement of the upper levels of the boiler rooms are largely the same.

The same components were used on different type of ships.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:19 am 
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To build New Jersey in 1/200 scale as she appeared from October 1944 - May 1945, would the Trumpeter Iowa or Missouri kit be more appropriate? Additionally, is there a 1/200 scale round bridge offered in 3d print or cast resin? I've looked and the largest I see is 1/350.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 9:42 am 
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drdoom1337 wrote:
To build New Jersey in 1/200 scale as she appeared from October 1944 - May 1945, would the Trumpeter Iowa or Missouri kit be more appropriate? Additionally, is there a 1/200 scale round bridge offered in 3d print or cast resin? I've looked and the largest I see is 1/350.


Here's a conversion:

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/model-m ... 4--1024930

It suggests the Missouri Kit.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 12:13 pm 
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Any likelihood of Trumpeter doing a new 1/200 Missouri in her 1991 outfitting?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:31 pm 
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bigjimslade wrote:
drdoom1337 wrote:
To build New Jersey in 1/200 scale as she appeared from October 1944 - May 1945, would the Trumpeter Iowa or Missouri kit be more appropriate? Additionally, is there a 1/200 scale round bridge offered in 3d print or cast resin? I've looked and the largest I see is 1/350.


Here's a conversion:

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/model-m ... 4--1024930

It suggests the Missouri Kit.


I wonder if this bridge was designed before the Iowa kit existed? I haven't really looked at either kit extensively because I was planning on doing the 1/350th conversion. The 1/350 veryfire New Jersey does not represent the ship as it was during active combat in WWII, it represents her fit as flagship of the occupation force and perhaps the Korean war if you were to swap some 20mm single mounts for dual mounts.

Knowing Trumpeter, they'll probably choose to release a 1983-84 New Jersey instead of a 1991 Missouri. New Jersey saw far more combat than the other Iowa class ships.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 2:33 pm 
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Good news, the Model Monkey 1/200 scale USS New Jersey BB-62 1944 "round bridge" is being updated for a release date later this summer. The update includes more detail based on later research efforts and will be made available in gray resin. Like many other projects, its release was postponed due to Covid effects on available design time.

The Trumpeter 1/200 scale Iowa was released in 2013. The Model Monkey Iowa class bridge designs were originally released circa 2016.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 07, 2021 10:39 pm 
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ModelMonkey wrote:
Good news, the Model Monkey 1/200 scale USS New Jersey BB-62 1944 "round bridge" is being updated for a release date later this summer. The update includes more detail based on later research efforts and will be made available in gray resin. Like many other projects, its release was postponed due to Covid effects on available design time.

The Trumpeter 1/200 scale Iowa was released in 2013. The Model Monkey Iowa class bridge designs were originally released circa 2016.


With that said, for either the 1/350 or 1/200 scale version of this bridge, which kit do you suggest? The Missouri for both, or the Very Fire 1/350 New Jersey? I'm uncertain if that kit includes the original aft mast as well as the tripod.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 08, 2021 8:19 am 
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drdoom1337 wrote:
With that said, for either the 1/350 or 1/200 scale version of this bridge, which kit do you suggest? The Missouri for both, or the Very Fire 1/350 New Jersey? I'm uncertain if that kit includes the original aft mast as well as the tripod.

I wasn't going to offer an opinion, but Geez, this seems to be getting a bit repetitious - pick a scale and go with it!! :doh_1:

My recommendations would be:
1) if you have the space - 1/200 scale. There, was that so hard??? :thinking: Besides, it offers much higher level of detail than does 1/350th scale.

The Trumpeter kit you would be best served by would be the USS MISSIOURI kit - the 20mm gun configurations are closer to NEW JERSEY than the IOWA kit would offer. Keep in mind - both kits have INCORRECT 5"/38 Gun mounts - so, in addition to the Model Monkey bridge replacement, I would also suggest you invest in a set of (10) Model Monkey Dual 5"/38 gun mounts. And, don't forget to make sure your Mk. 37 Directors are the correct version for NEW JERSEY 1944 - the kit parts may or may not be that. Once again, check out the Monkey Man!!

The Trumpeter 1/200 IOWA/MISSOURI hulls are a mess - so, that is a moot point in deciding which kit to buy - you'll need to correct that if it matters; if it doesn't - don't worry about it!!! :huh:

Neither of these kits (IMHO) is properly suited to building a modern IOWA class BB UNLESS you are real adept at scratchbuilding or are into 3D Design & Printing. The superstructures of either NEW JERSEY or MO/IA/WISC will require EXTENSIVE rebuilding in order to end up with a reasonable decent model of any of the 4 ships. NEW JERSEY, due to her 1967-69 overhaul (MY tiime of service aboard her!!) was rebuilt in 1981 a bit different than the other 3 as they came along later in the mid-80s.

My build of 1/200 scale USS NEW JERSEY (1968-69) was done with a lot of 3rd party PE, scratch built parts, my own PE designed parts, many hand drawn 2D CAD drawings for construction. I have since contemplated replacing many of the scratch parts with 3D designed replacements as I've gotten into that realm of modeling, but probably won't as I have other projects in the pipeline. If you have any desires to learn 3D design and printing - do so, that would be a certain benefit in creating the parts you need for the modern version of those ships.

Hope this helps!!

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Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:21 pm 
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Can anyone let me know where the middle keg on the USS Missouri (WW2)
starts and stops?

I used to have the drawing but I no longer have it.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:31 pm 
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download/file.php?id=128958&mode=view
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4683&start=4300
download/file.php?id=132777&mode=view
viewtopic.php?f=47&t=4683&start=4380


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