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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:51 pm 
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A new Japanese movie seems to cover both the political and engineering development process of Yamato as well as her wartime career. Here is a https://www.military.com/off-duty/movies/2021/04/29/japanese-war-movie-aims-reveal-secrets-of-wwii-battleship-yamato.html?ESRC=dod_210507.nl.

Interestingly, the trailer shows a presentation model of some development stage of the Yamato development that I’ve never seen before. It showed Yamato close to final configuration with compact midship superstructure, 2 turret forward and 1 to the rear. But differ considerably in detail:

1. there aren;t distinctive 6” triple turrets superfiring over the 18” turret. The superstructure actually partially connects barbettes and B and C turret. There aren’t the 6” triple wing turrets either. Instead 6” guns seems to be emplaced in casemates along hull side

2. The stern isn’t cut down for access to aircraft hangar like on the real ship. Instead the C turret is elevated like on Italian battleship littorio, presumably to give better clearance to aircraft on the quarter deck.

I am curious if this is purely a fictional movie prop, or if it does represent an actual stage in the deign development.

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 1:13 pm 
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Just ordered it here in DVD!

https://www.amazon.com/Great-War-Archim ... B091F5QK1B


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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 3:24 pm 
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chuck wrote:

I am curious if this is purely a fictional movie prop, or if it does represent an actual stage in the deign development.


I just watched the original Japanese version with some...loose...subtitles, but the model in the movie is explained as an early version where the protagonists finds major structural inadequacies that would leave it vulnerable to high waves. The protagonist's concerns are acknowledged by the designer and incorporated after the movie.

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2021 5:32 pm 
It was common for marine architects to build scale models of the interior from the drawings to insure the drawings are correct, such as all piping would connect to where they are suppose to.

With CAD, it is no longer necessary.


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PostPosted: Sun May 30, 2021 3:53 am 
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chuck wrote:
A new Japanese movie seems to cover both the political and engineering development process of Yamato as well as her wartime career. Here is a https://www.military.com/off-duty/movies/2021/04/29/japanese-war-movie-aims-reveal-secrets-of-wwii-battleship-yamato.html?ESRC=dod_210507.nl.

Interestingly, the trailer shows a presentation model of some development stage of the Yamato development that I’ve never seen before. It showed Yamato close to final configuration with compact midship superstructure, 2 turret forward and 1 to the rear. But differ considerably in detail:

1. there aren;t distinctive 6” triple turrets superfiring over the 18” turret. The superstructure actually partially connects barbettes and B and C turret. There aren’t the 6” triple wing turrets either. Instead 6” guns seems to be emplaced in casemates along hull side

2. The stern isn’t cut down for access to aircraft hangar like on the real ship. Instead the C turret is elevated like on Italian battleship littorio, presumably to give better clearance to aircraft on the quarter deck.

I am curious if this is purely a fictional movie prop, or if it does represent an actual stage in the deign development.



This is latest for the black deck question on final fit of Yamato ...

2021 what do we know now - stained or darkened decks for the Ten-Go or natural worn out/faded? The only way they looks to be "black" is by being wet in this movie. Thoughts?

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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 9:31 am 
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Black decks. 22 year old Ensign Yoshida Mitsuru was an assistant radar officer aboard Yamato, and her senior surviving officer. Within a year after the sinking, he wrote the first version of the book "Requiem for Battleship Yamato". (Google it.) I can't find the initial passage about coloring the decks, but on p.93, he refers to the "jet black" deck.


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PostPosted: Mon May 31, 2021 12:55 pm 
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My understanding about the deck was it was hand rubbed using the soot from burning coal for fuel. In that case, YES it would fade or even wash away from the harsh conditions of being at sea from sea water, rain or whatever. Maybe all the statements from various experts and sailors are remembered periods of time where the decks color changes due to weathering. I guess the reason for darkening the deck was to make it a less obvious target from the air. Anyone else want to add to this?


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:24 am 
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When it comes to the colour of the weather deck, I´m very sure that Yamato was as clean as possible during her last Sortie.

In the book "The Battleships Yamato and Musashi" Selected Photos from the Archives of the Kure Museum, you can clearly see that the wooden deck was dirty through weathering and normal using from the beginning of Yamato and Musashi´s career.

Even on the famous photo with the Officers and the Emperor (June 1943) there are plenty of dark spots on the weather deck. The difference between the Kure Naval Grey and the wooden deck becomes less in b/w photos.

And there are a few photos with officers and crew members in January 1945 where you can see that the weather deck has (normally) aged and there are again plenty spots of dirt.

If I remember correctly, there was something written in "a Glorius Way to Die" by Russel Spurr, that the crew had only a few AA training lessons in 1945. And the rest of the time the ship was cleaned. A typical behavior on Warsips when they weren´t on any operation.

Just my 2 cent.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:13 pm 
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pascalemod wrote:
chuck wrote:
A new Japanese movie seems to cover both the political and engineering development process of Yamato as well as her wartime career. Here is a https://www.military.com/off-duty/movies/2021/04/29/japanese-war-movie-aims-reveal-secrets-of-wwii-battleship-yamato.html?ESRC=dod_210507.nl.

Interestingly, the trailer shows a presentation model of some development stage of the Yamato development that I’ve never seen before. It showed Yamato close to final configuration with compact midship superstructure, 2 turret forward and 1 to the rear. But differ considerably in detail:

1. there aren;t distinctive 6” triple turrets superfiring over the 18” turret. The superstructure actually partially connects barbettes and B and C turret. There aren’t the 6” triple wing turrets either. Instead 6” guns seems to be emplaced in casemates along hull side

2. The stern isn’t cut down for access to aircraft hangar like on the real ship. Instead the C turret is elevated like on Italian battleship littorio, presumably to give better clearance to aircraft on the quarter deck.

I am curious if this is purely a fictional movie prop, or if it does represent an actual stage in the deign development.



This is latest for the black deck question on final fit of Yamato ...

2021 what do we know now - stained or darkened decks for the Ten-Go or natural worn out/faded? The only way they looks to be "black" is by being wet in this movie. Thoughts?


On thi page http://www.watakan.net/yamato/research/yamato_color.html#yamato_color2 (is in japanese but with some translating tool you can have the idea) it says in ten-go deck was tan, black was only for the Leyte Gulf Battle. Using Google Translate:

" Did Yamato paint the wooden deck black during Operation Tenkaippin?

 Then, did Yamato paint the wooden deck black even during Operation Tenkaippin? Regarding this matter, I do not think that it is currently painted (material analysis as of June 6, 2004). The reasons are listed below.

Operation Sho-go was a special operation, and at least all the battleships of the Kurita fleet were painted black on the deck. However, Operation Tenkaippin was a fleet special attack, and it was not necessary to hide the deck, and it seems that pride as a Japanese Navy battleship was not allowed.
CLASSIC WARSHIPS PUBLISHING's WARSHIP PICTORIAL 25 "IJN YAMATO CALSS BATTLE SHIPS" has a photo of a commemorative photo taken on April 5, 1945, one day before the Yamato Tenkaippin operation. Looking at the wooden deck, it remains bare.
Document Battleship Mitsuru Yoshida / Katsuhiro Hara Bungei Bunko 349-2 Published Bungei Shunju Co., Ltd. First Edition April 25, 1986 Publication code ISBN4-16-734902-7 C0131 P80 Farewell Inland Chapter, 2nd Fleet When Lieutenant Colonel Miyamoto looked over from the first bridge (starting quoting), Yamato was different. The top of the deck like a basin is quiet (end of citation) , and as the testimony says , the deck is likened to a basin . From this metaphor, it seems that it was not painted at the time of departure, at least as with Operation Shoichi.
Although it is stated that the deck was painted black in the detailed battle report of Operation Ichi-Go, it is unlikely that it was painted during the voyage because there is no description in the detailed battle report of Operation Tenkaippin.
On the bulletin board of Mr. Yamanouchi's "Model Sea and Sky", when I checked with the former crew, I got the answer that the deck was not painted black for Operation Tenkaippin"


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:53 am 
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Regardless of all these opinions, it didn't seem to matter if the deck was black or not. It's now laying at the bottom of the ocean in all its glory. As for the movie, I'm still trying to watch this to the end without falling asleep. Maybe the key is to skip all the BS which is the first part of the movie. I'll try again with a fresh pot of coffee.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:21 am 
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I assume baseballbrat is being facetious: I hope you make a really great pot of coffee and appreciate the movie for its good points, and then get some modelling done to get back into good humour :heh:
It's always exciting to get information from various sources, and then try to dissect it and corroborate it for veracity. We all have differing goals in modelling, and historical accuracy is surely in most people's minds, even though the level aimed for varies wildly. Part of the joy of this hobby is interacting with other modelers with different goals.
I've been to see the Kure museum's Yamato a few times and bought the book they brought out at the time. Great to see they update the model when new information comes to light that has a high probability of being correct.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:05 am 
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Gernot wrote:
I assume baseballbrat is being facetious: I hope you make a really great pot of coffee and appreciate the movie for its good points, and then get some modelling done to get back into good humour :heh:
It's always exciting to get information from various sources, and then try to dissect it and corroborate it for veracity. We all have differing goals in modelling, and historical accuracy is surely in most people's minds, even though the level aimed for varies wildly. Part of the joy of this hobby is interacting with other modelers with different goals.
I've been to see the Kure museum's Yamato a few times and bought the book they brought out at the time. Great to see they update the model when new information comes to light that has a high probability of being correct.


You saw right through me! I have to pull everyone's chain every once in awhile to keep this post interesting. As for the movie part, I bought the movie just to see what all the CG looked like. A lot of you are interested in why and how this ship got built, where I am more interested in the details of the ship itself.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:39 pm 
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Hi, I have been spending much time scrolling through this forum looking for answers on how the Yamato appeared during Operation Ten Ichi Go 1945, to help me with my construction of the 1/350 Tamiya Premium Yamato kit and various aftermarket (MK.1 Deluxe, Eduard New Yamato and Flyhawk Yamato). I have been using the latest AOTS along with real images of the ship, the 1/10 Kure museum model and even the relatively new VR Yamato tour PC game as primary references, yet I am still left with a lot of questions on clashes and possible inaccuracies found between these sources. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find any footage of the wreck expeditions and only have the images of the wreck shown in AOTS. If anyone can help answer any of these issues that would be great, if any questions have already been definitively answered on this forum I apologise. Image links to imgur.

Anyway, to begin with, did the open 25mm triple mounts have shields during Operation Ten Ichi Go? AOTS depicts the 1945 fit as with shields, even though this conflicts with some prior sources. Also, just about all the detail kits and the Tamiya kit itself come with the option to use the shields. I have seen a few people ask this question but none really received an answer with much evidence.
AOTS depiction 1945 https://imgur.com/a/NFAIDXJ

Secondly, AOTS states the forward anchor deck were unpainted zinc-coated of a light grey colour and in all 3D diagrams in the book, the plates are depicted as a much shinier and lighter shade of grey than the rest of the ship. One of the Pitroad 1/700 Yamato kits recognises this on its colour call out, yet I have not seen a single build that incorporates this detail or any other mention of these unpainted zinc plates outside of these two sources. Furthermore, the colourised pictures of Musashi's anchor deck lead me more towards the idea these plates were painted the same grey as the rest of the ship, but the photograph is too low quality to really tell.
AOTS depiction https://imgur.com/a/FQCUd2f
Real picture https://imgur.com/a/IZi3wAJ

Another discrepancy between sources is the supposed ventilators depicted on the Kure model on the side of the boat storage area near the stern of the ship. Pretty much all the detail kits also depict these portholes as the square ventilators, however, AOTS depicts them as simply larger diameter portholes, which is consistent with the Tamiya kit. Furthermore, all good quality pictures of the Yamato (including some very clear closeups) show these as large portholes, although the fan ventilators could have been added late war possibly?
Ventilators in bottom left of this picture of the Kure model https://imgur.com/a/ecdBtyO
Real picture showing them as portholes in 1941 https://imgur.com/8RUV4SV

The rear AA platform is also a feature which most sources disagree on. The Kure model has two connected octagons with a flat side and a single ladder facing the stern, the Tamiya and Flyhawk kits have a similar design but without the flat surface. AOTS on the other hand depicts the AA platform as two separated hexagons, each with its own individual ladder. All pictures of Yamato during Ten Ichi Go are too unclear to really tell which style is correct.
Kure museum style https://imgur.com/HUSxYBL
AOTS depiction https://imgur.com/undefined

Also, a minor discrepancy is the style of type 22 search radar is often conflicted. The Tamiya kit and Pontos upgrade depict it as a significantly larger lower horn, whereas AOTS and the Kure model depict it as your standard universal type 22 with two equally sized horns.
AOTS depiction https://imgur.com/a/u6Fd6Bs

Finally, a question which I think I have solved myself is the shape of the stern. AOTS depicts a different design, where there is a very thin section leading into a triangle. The Kure model simply has one large triangle. I read a response from years ago with someone claiming that the new AOTS depiction was incorrect to the Kure model. However, none of the attached pictures he claimed to prove this worked. Upon my own research, there is an image of the wreck of the Yamato in AOTS clearly showing the stern to in fact be consistent with that depicted in AOTS.
Photo of stern on wreck https://imgur.com/a/O8pjrOM
AOTS depiction https://imgur.com/a/9KwL2b7

Sorry if this post is asking too much, I just figured to ask all my questions now and see if anyone can answer some or all of them. If no definitive answer can be achieved, I will probably just follow whatever is presented in AOTS as it seems to be the most accurate reference currently available.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:57 am 
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Heaven One


In case of the open 25mm triple guns, there are some photos from 1945 available where you can clearly see, that the open triples haven´t any shields. For example you can see it clear at the attached photo where I had reconstructed the shape of the so called "Zarebas". From a nearby position another set of photos were shot, where you can see two more open triple guns (above direct at the superstructure).

And when it comes to the shape of the Zarebas, the actual 1/10 Kure Model is correct! The shape of Skulski´s Zarebas in his updated AotS is wrong.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 6:51 pm 
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vds242 wrote:
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Heaven One


In case of the open 25mm triple guns, there are some photos from 1945 available where you can clearly see, that the open triples haven´t any shields. For example you can see it clear at the attached photo where I had reconstructed the shape of the so called "Zarebas". From a nearby position another set of photos were shot, where you can see two more open triple guns (above direct at the superstructure).

And when it comes to the shape of the Zarebas, the actual 1/10 Kure Model is correct! The shape of Skulski´s Zarebas in his updated AotS is wrong.


Appreciate the help, the inclusion of the shields on the 25mm in AOTS had me scratching my head for sometime, so it's great to finally get some closure to that question. I take it the Zarebas are those shields around the 25mm mounts, I actually hadn't noticed the difference with AOTS, but when I get to doing them I'll keep in mind to refer to the Kure model instead. Strange that Skulski would include a detail like the shields when there is photographic evidence to disprove it, but still a great publication none the less.

Also, if anyone could second my conclusion on the shape of the stern before I do any major damage to my model that would be great! I have already begun sanding but thought I better wait incase any experts disagree. Accuracy is all at the end of the day.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:25 am 
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Another new 1/700 Yamato, this time from Pontos with full PE and turned brass: https://www.luckymodel.com/scale.aspx?i ... PS-70002R1


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 9:29 pm 
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Rivet counters.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 10:25 am 
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Agreed.

Will it really be better than the Pit-Road versions with appropriate PE? Hard to imagine.

But, I did think the same thing about the Flyhawk Bismarck when announced, and I was wrong there.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 6:21 pm 
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Hopefully ( :please: ) Flyhawk did the plastic-work for the kit!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:11 pm 
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Does anyone know what happened to KATANA? I was following his rigging posts and they just abruptly stopped. I'm just now starting my Yamato after having it for several years and would like all the info on rigging I can get. I have AOTS and many other references plus I saved all KATANA had given us. Just kinda wondering what happened.


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