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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 12:41 pm 
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Thanks for the great drawing!!


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 02, 2021 2:30 pm 
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no problem.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 3:06 pm 
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Does anyone have pictures of Battleship Missouri or Iowa as it was lit at night?

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 Post subject: BB-63 RAS question
PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:21 pm 
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Location: Sydney Australia
Howdy currently building Trumpetor 1/700 BB-63 Gulf war period, Im doing this in a diorama in a RAS AOE-4 and (Dragon)HMAS Brisbane (RAN DDG deployed during Gulf war) I wanted to show the scale and size of a BB vs DDG and thought this would be a good combination.
My question is, the RAS station for Missouri, I can see there was a RAS derrick aft but in photo's I can see they used aft and one forward but I cant see photo of the forward position, was there also the same derrick forward as aft, would anyone have photo drawing of the fwd position?

Thankyou for any assistance

Regards

waz


Last edited by Timmy C on Sun Jul 18, 2021 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
merged into Iowa class thread


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 18, 2021 10:05 pm 
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Location: Mocksville, NC
Waz,

When the IOWA class BB's were recommissioned in the early 80s, they had new RAS stations installed on the stbd side of the ship just fwd. of Turret #3 - as you are aware. The refueling davit and associated winches and equipment were all located in that one area of the ship. I could be wrong, but this was then the dedicated refueling location - however, BB64 did have a main deck refueling tripod located in the vicinity of Mount #8 (old mount 58) on the port side of the ship. I can't be positive that this refueling station was also located on BB-61, 62, or 63. Here are a couple photos I took of this station in 2019 when I was aboard BB-64 -
Attachment:
Port Fueling Tripod-Assy_1.JPG
Port Fueling Tripod-Assy_1.JPG [ 166.93 KiB | Viewed 738 times ]

Attachment:
Port Fueling Tripod-Assy_2.JPG
Port Fueling Tripod-Assy_2.JPG [ 183.02 KiB | Viewed 738 times ]

In addition, BB-64 received the single RAS Sliding Eye Kingpost which the other 3 BBs did not prior to their decommissioning. This was used only for transfer of supplies, ammo, etc. not refueling. It is currently on board this ship to the left of the Refueling Davit as this photo shows -
Attachment:
Stbd Sliding Pad Eye Kingpost_1.JPG
Stbd Sliding Pad Eye Kingpost_1.JPG [ 198.4 KiB | Viewed 738 times ]

Regarding BB62 - There were replenishment stations both fwd and aft utilizing Turrets #2 and #3 for taking aboard stores, ammunition, personnel, etc. and this had been in place from the beginning. We (during Vietnam War - USS NEW JERSEY) utilized both fore and aft stations as well as a tripod high line transfer station on the stbd. 01 Level. We did not have the current refueling davit but had a more simple affair on both the stbd and port sides (aft) for handling refueling lines. Refueling at sea during WWII/Korean War was also carried out both stbd/port side at fore and aft refueling stations. I cannot recall whether or not the forward refueling stations were utilized during our 1968-69 cruise. Both of the after refueling stations were in use as I recall.

Hope this helps,

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BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:12 am 
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Location: Sydney Australia
Thanks that pic helps me a lot, ties together the detail I wanted from this photo, re position fwd RAS point

Cheers


Attachments:
missouri UNREP.jpg
missouri UNREP.jpg [ 227.06 KiB | Viewed 703 times ]
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:14 am 
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Waz,

OK, so that answers my question re. the other 3 ships - BB-63 also has the fwd. refueling tripod on the main deck. These newer refueling stations, etc. were probably more up to date designs for the distillate fuel that the ships burned after conversion from fuel oil in the '80s refits.

Thanks for posting that photo!

Hank

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HMS III
Mocksville, NC
BB62 vet 68-69

Builder's yard:
USS STODDARD (DD-566) 66-68 1:144, USS-LSM/R-194 1:144
Finished:
USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) 67-69 1:200
USN Sloop/Ship PEACOCK (1813) 1:48
ROYAL CAROLINE (1748) 1:47
AVS (1768) 1:48


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:41 pm 
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What's the proper color of the deck under the anchor chains on the Iowa class BB's (1980/1990)?
Was it black or was it a really dark gray?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:46 am 
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QMG_Waz wrote:
Thanks that pic helps me a lot, ties together the detail I wanted from this photo, re position fwd RAS point

Cheers


That's an interesting detail photo and prompts a question from me! Did any of the other three Iowa Classes ever carry the USN / NATO UNREP Code panels and numbers as circled in red here on Missouri?

Attachment:
missouri UNREP R1.jpg
missouri UNREP R1.jpg [ 314.69 KiB | Viewed 515 times ]


And as an observation the location of what is presumably the Pioneer RPV Satcom Dome is interesting. First time I have noticed it positioned there behind the Phalanx Guns as circled in blue. I imagine it was mounted there temporarily pending fitting to the aft funnel as per normal?


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:00 pm 
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With regards to the previous question about the color of the BB63 forward main deck by way of the anchor chains. Looking at my photos from 2013 aboard Missouri, the foredeck is currently painted in Deck Blue. As this is a museum ship it is not evidence of previous painting but suggestive that this was probably the case during her late deployments.

Cheers: Tom


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 4:50 am 
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Fliger747 wrote:
With regards to the previous question about the color of the BB63 forward main deck by way of the anchor chains. Looking at my photos from 2013 aboard Missouri, the foredeck is currently painted in Deck Blue. As this is a museum ship it is not evidence of previous painting but suggestive that this was probably the case during her late deployments.

Cheers: Tom


This video from Battleship New Jersey's Youtube channel mentions that in her current state as a museum ship they try to keep her in her authentic 1980s era colours. A notable exception however being the deliberate painting of her steel decks in a lighter grey colour than when she was in service. This for heat reduction purposes as the darker grey absorbs more sunlight and generates more heat within the ship. And the museum wishes to keep the temperature a little lower than it was in her active service days to facilitate museum visitor comfort:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5PzL7Yeops

Their YouTube channel is an excellent resource on the whole. Well worth a look.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:22 pm 
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As to the Missouri museum ship I haven’t measured the reflectivity of the deck paint though I could have if I had been interested. I can only comment that it appears to be the standard deck gray. The interior of the ship is controlled much as with ships that had been in the reserve fleet wit regards to temp and humidity.

This does however reinforce the principle that museum ships are not completely primary sources. Somewhere I have photos taken from the bridge which show the turret tops well.

Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 4:10 am 
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There is one on Wikipedia from 2008, not sure has she been repainted since? Photo reposted for ease of viewing:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg

Attachment:
USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg
USS_Missouri_watching_over_USS_Arizona_-_Pearl_Harbor.jpg [ 181.51 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]


No 1 Main gun turret has a light grey roof on the museum ship. I have never seen a photo of it like that in active service. Not on Missouri in the 1980s and early 1990s anyway. Not to say one definitely does not exist or that it definitely never happened. The turret could also be open to the public and repainted light grey for heat reduction reasons like on New Jersey? I don't know, have never been to the Missouri Museum. It is on the list to do for sure though.

New Jersey had light grey main gun turret roofs initially in the early 1980s, later repainted darker deck grey. Same with Iowa, she had light grey main gun turret roofs on her sea trials but they seem to have been repainted dark grey upon her 1984 recommissioning or some time thereabouts. Missouri to my knowledge never had light grey main gun turret roofs anytime from 1986-1992. While Wisconsin had light grey main gun turret roofs throughout her all too short 1980's service life from 1988-1991.

Another photo her of Missouri from 1991 from Wikipedia. Again reposted for ease of viewing:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg

Attachment:
1024px-USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg
1024px-USS_Sacramento_(AOE-1)_replenishes_USS_Missouri_(BB-63),_circa_in_1991.jpg [ 155.77 KiB | Viewed 311 times ]


So yeah it all depends on when exactly you intend to portray your ship and how much you want to look into it.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:18 am 
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Will fetch up my 2013 photo from the same spot. Both turrets deck grey and foredeck darker.

Tom


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:53 am 
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Attachment:
mo from bridge_MG_6195.jpg
mo from bridge_MG_6195.jpg [ 309.3 KiB | Viewed 283 times ]


Apparently suffering from CRS (Can't remember "stuff"). Here is the photo taken on a day not long after a rain. I think I have a sunny one somewhere. Note that the Turret 1 has a light grey top. May have to re do my model if this is correct. Several photos I have seen of Mo underway seem to show the after wooden deck area stained, though this is not currently the situation. Sort of blending in, though not totally, with the deck gray of the helicopter operating area.

Harrumph!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:05 pm 
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One thing I will add on colors is that the area around Turret No. 3 on U.S.S. New Jersey during the 80's–90'a is a rubber, nonskid mat over epoxy over rotten teak.

It looks like bare metal in photos.

I don't know of any of the other ships had the same done.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:07 pm 
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All four Iowa Classes had the anti-skid coating aft in the 1980s. Though all had different areas covered. See comparison below between Iowa and New Jersey, photos from Wikipedia:

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_high_angle_port_beam_view_of_the_battleship_USS_IOWA_(BB_61)_underway_off_the_coast_of_Virginia_-_DPLA_-_58f7642fb49b895186dd150884f06e15.jpeg

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:A_port_beam_view_of_the_battleship_USS_NEW_JERSEY_(BB_62)_underway_-_DPLA_-_3ba29a95c785f96bd98d5cf5e83092c7.jpeg

Cropped and re-posted for ease of viewing:

Attachment:
Iowa.jpeg
Iowa.jpeg [ 102.15 KiB | Viewed 253 times ]

Attachment:
New Jersey.jpeg
New Jersey.jpeg [ 155.62 KiB | Viewed 253 times ]


I've always wondered were the flight decks meant to be a different shade of grey to the rest of the anti-skid deck? Or it it simply a case of different areas of deck getting repainted at different times in nominally the same colour but ending up being differently weathered due to newer and older sections being done and hence looking different?

In the photo of Iowa above, the helicopter pad and small ramp section look darker than the rest of the anti-skid coating, whereas on New Jersey it is the other way around and the helicopter pad and small ramp are lighter than the rest of the anti-skid coating!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:45 pm 
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Interesting the "Joy Z" has three light turret roofs. An ID feature? As BJS noted much of the after deck was covered by a rubbery mat non skid wire as the Helicopter deck and ramp were non skid on steel. Mo at various times had her whole after decking cover with the stuff aft of the aft MK38 and forward of the Heli Ramp. Some others had wooden walkways left in.

As to the "anchor deck" note the black between the anchor chains.

T


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:54 pm 
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Mr. Church wrote:
I've always wondered were the flight decks meant to be a different shade of grey to the rest of the anti-skid deck? Or it it simply a case of different areas of deck getting repainted at different times in nominally the same colour but ending up being differently weathered due to newer and older sections being done and hence looking different?

In the photo of Iowa above, the helicopter pad and small ramp section look darker than the rest of the anti-skid coating, whereas on New Jersey it is the other way around and the helicopter pad and small ramp are lighter than the rest of the anti-skid coating!


They are entirely different materials. On the U.S.S. New Jersey, the ramp and helipad are painted. The section forward of the ramp is unpainted, textured rubber .


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 11:37 am 
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True Jim, that alone will make it look different even if both start out as similar colours. They will deteriorate differently when in use. The anti-skid material usually looks very dark but in some photos it appears much lighter. Whether it's wet or dry or viewed in sunlight or dull light makes a big difference too.

This photo from NARA gives a good indication of the anti-skid material as applied to the roof of Iowa's Turret No. 3. and to her fantail:

https://nara.getarchive.net/media/a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e

Photo re-posted for ease of viewing & discussion. copyright rests with NARA:

Attachment:
a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e.jpg
a-view-of-the-stern-of-the-battleship-uss-iowa-bb-61-with-a-pioneer-i-remotely-0d595e.jpg [ 115.92 KiB | Viewed 193 times ]


The anti-skid material appears much more prominent on the turret roofs in photos of Iowa than on any of the other sisters for some reason.


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