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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:32 pm 
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USS Arizona makes an appearance in this home movie footage.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ENLUD8q59o


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:36 am 
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Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
Jeff Sharp wrote:
USS Arizona makes an appearance in this home movie footage.


What's the time code Jeff, I missed it..... (looked at it twice)


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 03, 2021 11:46 am 
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Right at the 10:00 mark. Notice also Nihoa sailing behind her. I believe this footage to be late 40’s early 50’s.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:20 am 
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'48 would be the earliest, that's when Admiral Radford ordered the flagpole erected on the wreck and declared it's a war grave/memorial....

<SNIP>

Thanks for posting it...


Last edited by MartinJQuinn on Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Color discussion whacked. Don't post that sh*t here!


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:39 pm 
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MartinJQuinn wrote:
Color discussion whacked. Don't post that sh*t here!


Sincere apologies Martin, I should have known better and checked where it was posted.....

Jeff, could you post that vid over in the Colors & Camo section? it is relevant there as well....


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:09 pm 
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Egilman wrote:
MartinJQuinn wrote:
Color discussion whacked. Don't post that sh*t here!


Sincere apologies Martin, I should have known better and checked where it was posted.....

Jeff, could you post that vid over in the Colors & Camo section? it is relevant there as well....

I moved it there earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 5:29 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2021 4:19 am
Posts: 24
Hi,
EDUARD is going to release the USS Arizona 1/350 kit. It is old Trumpeter kit with add-ons - there will be a lot of prints, reels, machine guns, cannons, Kingfischers, metal main gun barrel, printed flags and PE parts. It should be something like "Tora, Tora, Tora" action to PH anniversary. However, the December date is questionable because the moldings are in a traffic jam in a Chinese port...
Regards,
66misos


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 12:29 pm 
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66misos wrote:
Hi,
EDUARD is going to release the USS Arizona 1/350 kit. It is old Trumpeter kit with add-ons - there will be a lot of prints, reels, machine guns, cannons, Kingfischers, metal main gun barrel, printed flags and PE parts. It should be something like "Tora, Tora, Tora" action to PH anniversary. However, the December date is questionable because the moldings are in a traffic jam in a Chinese port...
Regards,
66misos

Bulkheads to cover the horrid kit superstructure?


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:35 pm 
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maccrage wrote:
66misos wrote:
Hi,
EDUARD is going to release the USS Arizona 1/350 kit. It is old Trumpeter kit with add-ons - there will be a lot of prints, reels, machine guns, cannons, Kingfischers, metal main gun barrel, printed flags and PE parts. It should be something like "Tora, Tora, Tora" action to PH anniversary. However, the December date is questionable because the moldings are in a traffic jam in a Chinese port...
Regards,
66misos

Bulkheads to cover the horrid kit superstructure?


They had/have two different big ed sets for different Arizona's in 1/350th... The Minihobby and the Hobby Boss kits, both had the bulkheads to cover the seams on the superstructure... They are all the same Banner Kit....

And both sets are discontinued....


Last edited by Egilman on Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:47 pm
Posts: 205
Location: The Great Pacific Northwest
66misos wrote:
Hi,
EDUARD is going to release the USS Arizona 1/350 kit. It is old Trumpeter kit with add-ons - there will be a lot of prints, reels, machine guns, cannons, Kingfischers, metal main gun barrel, printed flags and PE parts. It should be something like "Tora, Tora, Tora" action to PH anniversary. However, the December date is questionable because the moldings are in a traffic jam in a Chinese port...
Regards,
66misos


May I ask where this info came from? I don't see it on their site or facebook pages...


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:15 am 
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Hi,
It was announced by Mr. Sulc, EDUARD CEO at Czech Modelform where Eduard has its own thread and Mr. Sulc makes there some announcements, answers endless questions and discuss with modelers.
Info again from Modelforum: different details added to Arizona kit will be latter sold separately as Brassin sets.
Seems Eduard is going to focus on Pacific theatre to some extent. They going to start with Tora, Tora, Tora - e.g. USS Arizona 1/350 and Zeros over PH, then other versions of Zero, Wildcat. IJN HIryu (reboxed Fujimi 1/350) is negotiated so far. If project Hiryu not happened then Yorktown should be replacement.
Sorry for off-topic.
Regards,
66misos


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:15 pm 
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Getting back to my Banner Arizona and I am wondering was there ever a consensus as to how the area of the vegetable locker was laid out through the ships time in service? I read through the thread but never came around with a definite answer. I remember someone posting some computer drawn images but can't recall where I saw them. Anyone???


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Wed Oct 27, 2021 6:27 pm 
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the vegetable locker was laid out in what way?
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-1_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-2_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... 85-3_a.jpg
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB39/BOGP/


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Oct 29, 2021 10:22 am 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
A few years back the USNI published an article by John F. De Virgilio titled "Seven Seconds to Infamy". This article described the two high level bombing attacks on the USS Arizona. He describes the five plane V formation of each bomb run and supplies a drawing of the location of all ten bombs that were dropped on Arizona and Vestal.


May be I am wrong. But as fo me some inaccuracies in this schema.

WDR#12 Vestal + Plan Book Arizona + 2 hit on Arizona
Image

Real position of ships (pink) and hits from WDR (red) on De Virgilio Bomb Overlay
Image

Test. Putting it all on the photo + De Virgilio Bomb Overlay(blue)
Image


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:29 am 
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I have questioned John's conclusions in this article as well. Certain things just don’t add up. To give a little background, before this article was published in 1997, John was a contributor to Paul Stillwell's book "Battleship Arizona" which was published in 1991. John contributed a few drawings to the book including this one.
Image
At the time he concluded that Arizona was hit by four 800kg bombs as seen in this drawing.
Then in 1997 he wrote the article "Seven Seconds to Infamy".
Here is a quote from that article.
"Although original damage reports on the Arizona listed as many as eight bomb hits, Japanese aviators estimated as many as four. The lower Japanese account is far more realistic. And now, with the addition of new data, the official Japanese testimony of four hits can be lowered to only two hits and two very near misses."
John eliminated the two bomb hits midship's.
If there was only two bomb runs and only two bomb hits as John states then what is this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnSDNNgJG80


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 1:18 pm 
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Exactly right Jeff. The only issue I had with "Seven Seconds", which is a great article, is that it showed the midships hit as a near miss. I believe this video by the NPS was in this area (frame 80 - 90) and there were survivor reports from Wentzlaff, Lane and Hurst stating there was a fire in the Exec's office (frames 82 - 86) just below the NPS divers position. All of their reports stated it was beofre the big blast. Also in Raymers "Descent into Darkness" recounts diver reports of removing a bomb from the meat locker 2 decks below the execs office. Eye witness reports can be wrong but lots of evidence of a hit in this area.


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Mon Nov 01, 2021 3:56 am 
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Jeff Sharp wrote:
Then in 1997 he wrote the article "Seven Seconds to Infamy".
Here is a quote from that article.
"Although original damage reports on the Arizona listed as many as eight bomb hits, Japanese aviators estimated as many as four. The lower Japanese account is far more realistic. And now, with the addition of new data, the official Japanese testimony of four hits can be lowered to only two hits and two very near misses."
John eliminated the two bomb hits midship's.
If there was only two bomb runs and only two bomb hits as John states then what is this?

This is another good question.
Why Japanese account? Yes, Material Damage Assesment with 8 hits may contain errors
But there is shipyard war damage report contains data from a survey of divers.
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/BB39/1943-10-7WarDamageReport.html

Unfortunately, there are no text description of hit and enclosures. But there are some details from this report in other documents.

USS Arizona Analysis of loss, 1944
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... fLoss.html
Quote:
4. Reference (a) found evidence of only five bomb hits, all of which were aft of the foremast structure.


and USS Arizona Magazine Explosion, 1947
http://www.researcheratlarge.com/Ships/ ... osion.html
Quote:
15. The evidence is not clear as to whether the bomb penetrated the third deck or a fire started by the bomb detonation passed through an open hatch in the third deck into the magazines. Reference (a) stated that most of the armored hatches on the third deck were probably open at the time. Reference (c) indicated that fragments from 4 of 5 bombs of which definite evidence was found of having hit ARIZONA penetrated the third deck. The fifth bomb hit the faceplate of turret IV which may account for its detonation above the second deck.


As for me only 800kg AP bomb may penetrate second and third deck (4-1/4-inch STS). And that means that six 800kg bombs hits ARIZONA


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 7:33 pm 
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CalV wrote:
Exactly right Jeff. The only issue I had with "Seven Seconds", which is a great article, is that it showed the midships hit as a near miss. I believe this video by the NPS was in this area (frame 80 - 90) and there were survivor reports from Wentzlaff, Lane and Hurst stating there was a fire in the Exec's office (frames 82 - 86) just below the NPS divers position. All of their reports stated it was beofre the big blast. Also in Raymers "Descent into Darkness" recounts diver reports of removing a bomb from the meat locker 2 decks below the execs office. Eye witness reports can be wrong but lots of evidence of a hit in this area.


Thank you for reminding about "Descent into Darkness"! Here is the excerpt from the book.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:38 am 
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Hello folks,
On Dec 7 after I delivered a speech, a USMC MSgt approached me and said his great-grandfather was supposedly aboard the Arizona in the 30's but they weren't sure if any of the surviving photos are from the 'Zona. He sent me 6, and I told him I thought the 3rd held the key, as it shows the ship's superstructure, a little. It certainly does appear like the Arizona's in the 30's but I wanted to submit them to better scrutiny in here. What do you think? Yes Arizona or No? Or just Maybe?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image


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 Post subject: Re: At 'Em Arizona Fans!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 6:13 am 
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I'm afraid I don't know the Arizona well enough to answer your question. However I'm intrigued by the blast bag detail of the main gun turret in the background of the photo you posted:

Attachment:
Half blast bag.jpg
Half blast bag.jpg [ 144.7 KiB | Viewed 221 times ]


Looks like only the top half of a blast bag. Hard to see what difference that would make in terms of keeping water out? Rain, wind and sea spray would surely still enter the exposed lower half of the gun port.

An interesting detail. It is a decision for when I ever get around to modelling Arizona. Blast bags or not? Though based on that photo half a blast bag now seems to be an option too!


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