mysterious ship under construction

[ABDA_Krijn]

hallo

i have a ship under construction for rc warship combat

maybe some people will recognise it.

feel free to take a gues wichone it is



lets hope this works
Krijn

[Foeth]

Hmm, I "guess" a prematurely cancelled German O-class battlecruiser..... what do I win?

[ABDA_Krijn]

wrong !!!

so what do i win ?


hehe

Krijn

[Timmy C]

O-Pro II !!

[Filipe Ramires]

That's the dutch project for the Ijsselmeer battlecruisers that were never laid dow.

[ABDA_Krijn]

good recognition !!!!

projekt 1047 battlecruisers for service in the east indies, 3 planned none build hullshape nearly identicall to german "scharnhorst" type but with thinner armour, better distributed armour, higher speed, longer lenght and .. 180.000 shp.

her main guns and turrets where the same as on the scharnhorst but her 4.7 inch secondairies where Bofors.

aside 9 11.1 inch guns she also carried 12 4.7 inch, 14 40 mm (7x2) and some oerikons and lighter arnaments.

the model uses a Scharnhorst hull i had laying about but a complete new ship will be build now that i have finally found a ribplan (something the dutch national institution for maritime history didn't have)


Krijn
Ontario Attack Force.

[kennylibben]

you said the class... but not the actual ship. Hr Ms Eendracht


i win

[Foeth]

Oh damn, and I am Dutch...

I went through the archives of the model station that tested her hull. Digged up an old propeller and shaft layout drawing. Nothing more.

[Filipe Ramires]

For shame Foeth...and she's even flying a dutch flag if you look closer!!!

[Foeth]

I have no eye for details...

[kennylibben]

its okay foeth.... you can still hang out with werner.

[ABDA_Krijn]

Foeth

wees niet bezorgd, iedereen kan een foutje maken

had je nog nooit eerder deze slagkruisers gezien ?

(translation)

no worries everyone can make a mistake
have you never seen these battlecruisers?

"koers 300 vaart 25, ik val aan, volg mij"

Krijn
Ontario Attack Force

[Avery Boyer]

Here's the pic for those who don't want to go hunting.

Great build, and one I've never heard of

[Foeth]

Sure I know them, I even have Teitlers books. I thought you even got the turrets wrong as the O-class had 15" turrets. The mind works slowly!

[ABDA_Krijn]

Foeth

thats ok ..

its not like there are 2300 models of this or the O class about

i have never seen one .. even in Den Helder during the fleet days i never saw one (model).

on a historical note .. think what impact 1 or 2 of these ships would have had on the 2 Jap heavy's .. 11.1 inch shells dare not botherd by 6 inch side armour and their guns can reach the 2 jap heavy's at ranges the 8 inchers would have been useless and the 11 inch side armour of the dutch BC has no problems stopping the 8 inch shells of the japanese.

and thats why i'm builduing her .. a challenge as little is known about these ships and the effect these ships could have had on the battle in the java sea.


ah well first there is an Iowa to finish and a Malaya to reconstruct before the java,de ruyter,tromp, and kortenear are build followed by the other ships of ABDA command.

Krijn
Ontario Attack Force

[MichelB]

She's looking good! One wonders indeed what would have happened had they been there...

[Filipe Ramires]

A "what if" with such ships at the Java Sea Battle then?
Well, Doorman surelly would put his flag on one of the battlecruisers indeed.
Advantages for the Dutch with such ships:
- Good armour;
- Good weapons that can do a lot of damage to any japanese ship in the battle.

Japanese:
- Superb torpedoes;
- Proper air recon and air cover...in other words...they would prefer to take on such force with such ships with their bombers just like they did with Force Z;
- Even so calling only a surface action the japanese had superior numbers and might even consider calling out the Kongo's to deal with such menace.

[ABDA_Krijn]

good points

but.

kongo's side armour was only 9 inch .. hiei was left a wreck by a couple of us cruisers and destroyers at Guadalcanal.

the Prince of wales and repulse had a hopeless aa battery, the 5.25's on POW where to slow in firing and traversing to keep up and the POW had only a few pompons as other air defence. Repulse was even more desperate she had the clumsy 4 inch tripple mounts and a few pompons.

strong points of the dutch BC's
armour.. 275 mm thick (11 inch)
guns the german 11.1's where not great against modern heavy armourd battleships but the light armour of the Kongo's is not an issue.
aa guns /firecontrol the dutch ships used the Hazemeyer/HSA tri-axis balanced firecontrol for their lighter aa's (20's and 40's) something copied by the british and americans (and currently Hazemeyer/hsa is still a leading force in these weaponsystems )

placement of Armour on the dutch bc's was verry good especially when compared to the scharnhorst and older Battlecruisers.

another ship that should be part of the abda fleet is the cruiser that turned around when nearly out of oil and after hearing the disaster in the java sea .. Hr Ms Heemskerck this fast modern aa cruiser with its modern firecontrol and fast firing 10 4 inch guns would become the best aa cruiser in the british eastern fleet .

if the japanese had gone into a pure gun action against the allied fleet with 1 or 2 of the new BC's i think they would have withdrawn and waited till aircraft carriers and pure battleships became available like Nagato and Mutsu or Yamato.


on a model note:

this ship has 4 propshafts and 2 rudders .. she is verry agile and can turn in under twice her lenght without falling "dead" her powerplant was an old graupner 505 "jumbo" with gears so both inner shafts are driven.

rc warship rules prohibit individual propshaft control so independent motors/esc's is not allowed.

i have some pics of this ship during a test run but have no clue how to get them on here (anyone wanting to tell me .. let me know please)

this ship will be removed from my fleet to make place for a more accurate one in the future.

people looking for detailling .. don't bother ... in rc warship combat details better be high in the superstructure or else they will get shot off !!!

Krijn
Ontario Attack Force

[Filipe Ramires]

kongo's side armour was only 9 inch .. hiei was left a wreck by a couple of us cruisers and destroyers at Guadalcanal.

Hiei was not doomed until next morning when the planes of Cactus Air Force did show up. She was still with firing capability...in fact she was firing at a USN DD in the morning. 1 or 2 hits from San Francisco managed to penetrate the belt and wreck the steering room...and it was at point blank range.

the Prince of wales and repulse had a hopeless aa battery, the 5.25's on POW where to slow in firing and traversing to keep up and the POW had only a few pompons as other air defence. Repulse was even more desperate she had the clumsy 4 inch tripple mounts and a few pompons.

PoW had a very powerful AA battery...in fact such guns were perhaps the best AA heavy AA guns of the Royal Navy at the time. She was slow firing because she received two early torpedo hits near the stern that wrecked the rudder and flooded the power plant reducing the energy of the ship in 50% therefore taking half the power for the AA turrets. Still they kept working them manually. Amazingly Repulse managed to shot down around 5 planes with such reduced AA guns. Trained crews always count.

strong points of the dutch BC's
armour.. 275 mm thick (11 inch)
guns the german 11.1's where not great against modern heavy armourd battleships but the light armour of the Kongo's is not an issue.
aa guns /firecontrol the dutch ships used the Hazemeyer/HSA tri-axis balanced firecontrol for their lighter aa's (20's and 40's) something copied by the british and americans (and currently Hazemeyer/hsa is still a leading force in these weaponsystems )

11' guns were good guns and more then enough to deal with heavy cruisers. Not sure if Kongo's armour could defeat them but I find hard to believe they could. Dutch firecontrol was as good as the german ones which were good....normally you get a hit on the 3rd shot.

another ship that should be part of the abda fleet is the cruiser that turned around when nearly out of oil and after hearing the disaster in the java sea .. Hr Ms Heemskerck this fast modern aa cruiser with its modern firecontrol and fast firing 10 4 inch guns would become the best aa cruiser in the british eastern fleet .

Heemskerck wouldn't have made much of a difference in such battle. She would probably be leading the dutch destroyers or all the allied destroyers present and would probably counter-charge the incoming japanese flotillas. Torpedo or gunfire victim she would have become. Tromp was lucky to survive the beating she took at Badung Strait from a couple of japanese destroyers.

if the japanese had gone into a pure gun action against the allied fleet with 1 or 2 of the new BC's i think they would have withdrawn and waited till aircraft carriers and pure battleships became available like Nagato and Mutsu or Yamato.

Going in a pure gun action? Hardly! If you have a proper long-range weapon like the Long-Lance and a poor gunnery performance at such range you would surelly employ both weapons. Torpedoes are almost always present in every surface battle the IJN gets into it.
Like I said before the japanese had air supremacy therefore they would know long before what they were to face therefore the battle would never had took place...they would have just send the bombers to do the job. Still, they didn't do that on the battle of the 26-27th of February anyway.
No battleships were present in the area anyway...two Kongo's were escorting the carrier stricking force and the other 2 were a bit far away. Yamato and Musashi were not assigned to such campaign or even finished. The rest was at the home islands I believe.

Good points anyway, Krijn.
Java Sea is one of the subjects I like the most to read and study. Please, don't take my different opinions in a clashy way. I don't mean to start a serious argument on this. Just like to share the info.

Good luck with the project. I have Tromp here to build one of these days!!!

[kennylibben]

people looking for detailling .. don't bother ... in rc warship combat details better be high in the superstructure or else they will get shot off !!!

Krijn
Ontario Attack Force

Indeed!

you may recognize Sean Herts name on here... he's in the big-gun club, you battle with Mikey D. dont you Sean? Mikey posted a for sale thing for my ships, leading Krijn to contact me and i to invite Krijn Here. now we have some more combat status around here!

Krijn, i'm not sure if its the OAF i'm thinking of... but i know its in the area. I forget whose hulls they are... i'm thinking either Coles or Pottles, but do you know of any monitor hulls? I believe Abercrombie was one of them... i think they had like 3 classes.

ps-im tryin to get those pics for you.