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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 6:12 am 
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Excellent and very creative use of techniques and materials! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:

The second version is much sharper than the first indeed.

I'm glad you continue your work on this one. While Vic may not have been at her most beautiful in 1910, I think it is a very very interesting version, and very unique as a model.
Will you build this one as an 'exterior only' model?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:47 am 
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Thanks Marijn,

as I do have very little information about the inside, it will be an exterior only model :-)

XXXDAn

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2022 11:54 am 
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Pictures from 1900 show exactly that all the whales had been removed.

Image

The middle middle whales of the kit can be easily filled up, only the lower ones stick out. So out the coarse file :-)

Image

The black sharpie line above and below the whale is for height control. The copper plates are protected with duct tape.

Image

Then make a notch with the edge of the file to the required depth, i.e. to the black. If the notch is nice and even, then you have a nice depth control. And then the next notch next to it. And then blacken the notches and sand away the ridges between the notches and ...

Image

... smooth as a child's bottom.

After filling in the spaces in between the whales, I did another installation test. Gluing in parts from the inside ...

Image

... then trimm with a little excess. You need fast and sharp cutting disc, because the resin is quite brittle.

The excess material makes it easy to fill in and doesn't mess up the inside.

Image

Cleaned up with the sanding tool and primed, it's already close to what I want.

Image

And to make the whole thing easier to paint, now printed in white resin ;-)

Image

The matching frames for the window pane holders are also included and you can see the "gun carriage" well :-)

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 6:56 am 
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And then, once again, came catastrophies, confusion and bewilderment.

In some places the filling of the whales had come loose, so large-scale surgery.

Image

But it got even more irritating when I only wanted to check if the front and back port windows were parallelogramming like the corresponding old gun ports. Only to find that the windows are not square at all ...

... mot de Cambronne ...

... and that they did not even sit on the top and bottom of the moulding as I believed before.

So I measured the different windows again and checked different ratios, as a model maker has to have reasonably reproducible measurements for the planks later. This attempt was too flat ...

Image

... after another attempt, the size for the lower deck was finally better defined.

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 7:08 am 
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And then finally I was able to start. Open the gun port ...

Image

... check from the outside that the width of the frame fits ...

Image

... from the inside, that the height at the top is correct ...

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... and finally clear the lower edge. The frame should touch the hull only on one side, the other side and top and bottom must have a minimum of clearance, otherwise the frame body will bend quickly.

Image

Then the whole appearence looks even.

Image

When glueing in the frames, you could also see nicely on the inside of the hull if the long "carriages" are properly aligned.

Image

Then cut the outside to the right length with a bit of excess ...

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... fill ...

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... neaten ...

Image

... and that's how I had imagined it :-)

Image

Now just find the right window pane.

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 2:48 am 
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Then came the window panes. PVC film and matt transparent sellotape on the back ...

Image

... gives exactly the right opacity against inside view while ...

Image

... the outside reflects well, to be seen on both pictures on the right side window.

Image

And then the special windows for the four old Trafalgar guns on the middle deck.

Image

Image

Image

The guns sit almost on the bottom edge of the port, an indication that the windows sat higher than the former gun ports. The interior view is also funny :-)

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Then one of the 6 signal guns for saluting.

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But I still have to do some work on both of them, the half ring above the old gun and the middle window bars on the signal guns are too narrow.

The "chasing" windows at the stern are also in now, ...

Image

Image

... and even better with paint.

Image

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 2:58 am 
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Great work! :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1: :thumbs_up_1:


dafi wrote:
as I do have very little information about the inside, it will be an exterior only model :-)

Aha! Then this one can be finished much more quickly! :big_grin:

Maybe, as a contrast to 1805 Victory, you could make it a waterline display?


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:22 am 
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OK, then only 8 Years ;-)

As this is a kind of showcase about the history of the ship, it is gonna be funny how the marine growth was at this time ...

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:43 am 
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Such dedication! Great to see a model of this version of the ship :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:15 am 
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Thank you Martocticvs!


Come to the dark side. You want it too! Do you feel the force getting stronger?

The more you look at the windows, the more you notice how unevenly the sizes are distributed. At the beginning, I assumed a standard size - limited by the profile bar at the top and bottom - but the variety has become greater and greater.

Image

Nice to see here in the midship area. The two historic Trafalgar guns have distinctly different widths. The lower deck windows are the largest and reasonably uniform, in the middle deck I have been able to reduce it to 3 sizes but with 3 types of window frames, in the upper deck there are again 3 sizes with 2 types of frames and below the hut deck another size, these are the smallest windows. I have made an excel sheet to help me get through it ...

Image

... and had the sizes printed on the window inserts and the corresponding pane holders :-)

Image

Image

Type height approx. 2 papillary strips*** ;-)

XXXDAn


*** Also called dpi: dafi papillary strip index

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:43 am 
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It looks like the right-hand window is at least partially open, which may be making it look a little wider than the other (or at least less tall...)

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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:08 am 
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Somehow I still have some sanding to do and somehow I'm afraid that I'll get a lot of dirt behind the windows ...

That's why I temporarily put in the decks ...

Image

... and opened all the window ports so that the inserts fit well.

The front 2 gates are also being closed right now, because ...

Image

... around 1922 they were also closed :-)

Image

A wonderful picture*** from 1922! You can see how the Victory was still lying on the water shortly before :-0

The bolts in the holes and especially the detail I'm looking forward to building the most: the support of the chimney pipe!

The port/window at the very front was still open for many years, but judging by the sequence of photographs it was planked over sometime between 1900 and 1920.

Best regards, DAniel

PS***: The historical picture is mirrored to match my construction pictures.

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:52 am 
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dafi wrote:

The bolts in the holes and especially the detail I'm looking forward to building the most: the support of the chimney pipe!

hehehehe :cool_1: ..and don't forget the damaged planking and the fore mock window, that's gonna be fun too!

Congrats DAn, very inspiring craftsmanship and research, as usual :thumbs_up_1:

Cheers,

SG

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 4:39 am 
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Thank you! :-) :-) :-)

Since I have to print with black resin paint at the moment and thus can't easily put my white parts in between, here is a bit of preparation for the next steps. Sometime around 1860 to 1880 the Victory got a small booth on the poop deck.

This probably served as a shelter for the watch and was small in the early years ...

Image

... but was quite quickly converted to a more comfortable size.

Image

Therefore, here is the determination of the approximate dimensions and position based on the available photographs.

Image

Here is the approximate relationship between the distance between the mizzen mast, the booth and the stern. It was easy to measure in some of the pictures and the values were always approximately the same. You have to compensate a little for the perspective shift, but the basic dimensions seem to be right.

Image

On this view you can determine the width of the booth at its aft end, this point was already defined in the first step. Practically, the width of the booth is equal to its height. The two flag lockers could also be determined by the iron supports at the bulwark.

With this I have been able to draw a plan of the quarterdeck that is good enough for my purposes.
The measurements are 1:100.

Image

And the height of the bulwark could also be roughly determined via the sailor's belly button. On the outside view I could also determine the foreward end of the bulwark by means of a port.

So far it fits.

XXXDAn

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


Last edited by dafi on Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:33 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 2:21 pm 
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sheeeesh ! !!! !!!

the original de=construction looked alarming....

but,

it is exhausting merely reading , looking and understanding what you are doing.....

SUPERLATIVE efforts, methods and no fear of experimentation !!

excellent research images too

your perseverance, tenacity and dedication really is most admirable

JIM B :wave_1:

Hut Ab ! !! ( translation ... colloquial German saying that declares.....

Respect !

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:01 am 
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Thank you Jim. You do not know what that means, as some 10 years ago your models were a big inspiration for my own coming out out of the out of box modelling***! Thank you for that too!

XXXDAn

*** aka: cooooobm ;-)

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 5:08 am 
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While the printer was finally processing white resin again, some more planning and work preparation went on. The bulwarks of the open decks will have to be built. This has to be placed on top of the plastic hull shells, so construction, positioning and stability are a challenge. That's why I first filed gaps in the deck support for supports of the bulwarks.

Image

Then the supports are glued in place and a 2 mm polysterol plate is put on top.

Image

Clamps to press the plate to the support and wire to press the plate down to the hull.

Image

Then in the deck, slots for the supports were cut ...

Image

... and the interior panelling added.

Image

But it looked too thick compared to the photos. That's why I removed the panelling and the supports and it still holds perfectly.

Image

I sanded the cut edge again to get an even gluing surface. Since all my big files have a very distinct convexity, I took a stable piece of wood and glued it on with sandpaper :-)

XXXDAn

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 01, 2022 6:59 am 
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In the meantime, the white parts are also finished. And always these brain pictures. These were the two Trafalgar guns in the first attempt ...

Image

... but when I checked the window dimensions again ...

Image

... crap, the panes only have two parts. Three parts were at the guns in the upper deck.

Then glued in the frame as before ...

Image

... filler pieces glued in for better support ...

Image

... and filled with putty:-)

This deck is also only inlaid, because I will have to to take it out again and work on the inside later to put the window panes into the frames. For this I will trim back the carriages. That's why I made the new triangular cut-outs on the frontside of the carriage.

And I also did a test print. The foremost window in the lower deck had window bars. These are very fine.

Image

And they are to be fitted into the already fixed frames. You can see, however, that they are so fine that slight distortions occur when printing - since no supports can be used. Since the frame has too little undersize for its hole, this is of course exacerbated.

Image

And then again AAAAARGHH! With the dimensions of this bit, I got the first rectangular version and not the frames with a lower height that were used in the end ...

Image

... ok, can be corrected with the next print, maybe the distortion will be better too.

XXXDAn

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See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 02, 2022 3:47 am 
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Here is a small excursion into the interior life of the Victory around 1900. The difficulty is that there are far fewer pictures and it is much more difficult to put them in chronological order.
The first picture is of the upper gun deck, the photographer standing at the level of the foremast chains and looking aft.

Image

So far this is the only picture showing the signal guns on the inside. All the supports for the deck beams are from iron. The space is empty so far, which seems to be the case in other interior pictures.

A picture further back in the ship - from about the middle of the waist - shows the 12-pounders.

Image

The structure behind the gun racks is interesting. My interpretation based on the shadow on the deck is a cabin in front of the red outlined window, the light area behind it could be 2 windows with the other guns, and then the partition to Nelson's cabins behind. Plans of 1830 show a bulkhead with doors at excately the same place, and as in the pictures the doors open to the head. So the shadow should not be the door´s one.

The chute outside should be between the last and the second last gun, but I can't find any indication of it on the inside. Possibly the small bend to the aft is a sign that a pipe comes from the direction of the window and the cabin, which could indicate sanitary rooms.

Image

Another image concerns the two heavy Tarfalgar guns in the mid-deck, recognisable by the two-piece window and the larger angle of the ship's side, marked on the outside picture in the green frame.

Image

Whether the view is aft or towards the bow is not yet clear to me. Either the structure behind is the bulkhead to the officers' cabins or a booth of the entrance hatch.

But you can see that the gun carriage sits very low and that the gun therefore rests on the port frame below. On the other hand, on pictures of the upper battery deck you can see that the carriages there have significantly higher proportions, which also makes the gun barrels sit higher in the port.

Here are two more pictures that I think are from the upper battery deck: One is probably the oldest picture of the series, showing Nelson's cabin, and the rooms in front of it ...

Image

... and once probably also mid-deck with the heavy Trafalgar guns, judging by the slope of the ship's side.

Image

It remains exciting :-)

XXXDAn

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:00 am 
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Since I have once again scored some stupid mistakes, I recant all and everything and claim the opposite ;-)

First for orientation the side view with port numbering, the original photo is mirrored, as the following interior views also show the port side.

Image

First the fat mistake: when I was sitting in front of the hull and wanted to sand it, I suddenly thought, oh my dear, since when are the signal guns not in the upper deck but in the middle deck?

Image

Its because I had mistakenly assigned the following picture to the upper deck because of the gun mounts :-0

Image

But it is clearly the middle deck, also recognisable by the top of the forward capstan. What confused me were the guns behind the signal guns.

So I looked at the photos again and rediscovered a detail I had already had forgotten a long time ago:

Image

Windows 4,5,6 with the yellow circle are the signal guns of the middle deck, followed by an obscured window and then in 8 and 9 guns!

The interior view shows 3 guns at this place. Further beyond a gun can be seen at the very back, which has the breechline lying on it like in this picture:

Image

You can also see that there doesn't seem to be a booth at the entrance port, only a small indistinct structure can be seen.

Image

I have also numbered the picture of the upper deck according to the outside view for better understanding.

Image

The pipe inside is between ports 7 and 8. The pipe outside can be seen just before port 9 and is probably hidden behind by the hanging knee.

As described before, I suspect a booth around of window 10 due to the shadow on the deck and the 2 guns - also guessable in the deck shadow - in 11 and 12 and behind the bulkhead gun 13.

It remains exciting, DAniel

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To Victory and beyond ...
viewtopic.php?f=59&t=99050&start=60

See also our german forum for the age of Sail and History:
http://www.segelschiffsmodellbau.com


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