1/100 HMS Zinnia ( 1915 )

Edward Pinniger · Post by **Edward Pinniger** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:09 pm

Very nice work as usual, you do amazingly fine and precise work with cardboard! The bridge fittings look great too. Did you scratchbuild the binnacle?

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Sat Apr 28, 2007 10:18 am

Hi all ,

thanks for the comments ...

No , I didn't build the binnacles , those are white metal parts , coming from the "Hasse" range .

They do a lot of fittings ( resin turrets & boats , white metal parts & photo-etch material ) for german warships at scale 1/100

http://www.hassemodell.de

Of course , there are other Germans or European suppliers , all with their own range , but as I am happy with what Hasse supplies me ( availability/prices/easyness of payment through the Euro zone IBAN/BIC procedure ) , I don't see the need to go elsewhere for now ...

the only annoying matter with Hasse is that they don't have an online catalogue , you have to order a hard copy of it ...

For now , I'm on leave till next tuesday , so I should be able to work further on & post some pictures ...

off topic , I went last week to the Belgian Army Infantry School at Arlon , near Luxemburg , for a training course , I got the occasion to have a ride in a M113 on the field ( was not foreseen in the course , but , Yeah , when you know someone who knows the right person on the right place ) ...

I thought a ship at sea could shake a lot , but this kind of vehicle shakes a lot more , WOW !

Much better , the driver stopped and asked me if I wanted to drive the beast ...

Hell yes , I wanted to try that "thing" , so I did ...

drives easier than my Chevy Van , is more or less the same technology , Detroit Diesel 2 strokes V6 engine , automatic transmission , no brake pedal , just one gas pedal , two sticks and there you go

Regards ,

Laurent

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:31 pm

Hi Guys ,

hereby the wheel house being "full loaded" , the two E.R. transmitters being glued on place , with their actuating wheel :

the top of the wheel house is glued on , the railing is done with 0,5 mm brass wire & PE stanchions , all soldered with the same stuff as Uli uses ( liquid tin/lead paste )

the next move is the breakwater on the forecastle deck , material as usual with me , is 0.3 mm thick cardboard , the stiffeners have still to be added :

See you in a few weeks for another update ,

Laurent

Jefgte · Post by **Jefgte** » Sun May 06, 2007 6:09 pm

HMMM !!!

A Masterpiece to come Laurent

Jef

Reid · Post by **Reid** » Sun May 06, 2007 7:00 pm

Very nice. great detail!!

Torpedo · Post by **Torpedo** » Mon May 07, 2007 2:45 am

I can't wait to meet you and your fine boat. Any time to come this summer to germany? There are several meetings in June, July and September.

Post by **Dave Wooley** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:20 am

Hi Laurent I like the detail work in the bridge. Question what adhesive did you use to bond the clear plastic sheet to the window opennings?

Dave Wooley

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Thu May 10, 2007 3:45 pm

Hi all ,

thanks for the comments...

To Dave ,

I used CA glue to glue the clear plastic windows .

Don't ask me the quality of the plastic , it's a kind of thick soft plastic , it comes from a chocolate box of something like that ...

The CA glue I use is an industrial one , sold under the OLBA brand , it comes from the Netherlands .

http://www.olbaproducts.nl/

a little pricey but worth the money ...

to Uli ,

no idea if I'd be able to come in Germany this year , My C-In-C & myself are leaving Belgium next week for 15 days to France ( Atlantic coast ) for a modelling event + some vacations in the area ( la Rochelle , Rochefort , & from there going north to Bretagne )

in July-August , we go deeper south , to France again , in the mountains near the spanish border , also for 15 days

Regards ,

Laurent

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Mon May 14, 2007 4:07 pm

Hi all ,

those last days , I was busy with the building of the engine room skylight.

Made of 0,3 mm thick cardboard , the sheet has been impregnated with G4 resin before assembly , as the openings into the skylight made it very difficult to get all straight .

card that has been resinated is to be used just like Evergreen sheets .

the skylight on the plan :

from inside :

from above , different views :

I built this skylight this way , because I'll let the six hatches completely open , they were held in an almost vertical position .

now , an intriguing question to you all , on the plan is an object , with the mention : " G.I. can with perforated bottom"

can someone tell me what was the purpose of such can , because I don't get it ?

there are two of them , one in the vicinity of the engine room , the other being above the galley ...

Kind regards ,

laurent

Neptune · Post by **Neptune** » Tue May 15, 2007 2:39 am

hmm, not entirely sure, but in the past they had a nasty habit of spreading oil around the ship when they were in bad weather. The oil flattens out the waves. Normally they used a certain basket for it, also with holes around the bottom. But in fact everything was good enough if it had holes to spread around oil.
Those are of course old manoeuvres, so I'm not sure if it was still in use back then. It was of course extremely useless and polluting, but you know how it goes...

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:27 am

Hi Roel ,

could be an idea , indeed , I know for sure that ship's boats had a can with oil on board , to calm the sea state when you had to pick-up someone out of the water .

About pollution , I don't think they used mineral oil but

stinking fish oil instead ( we still had some on board our minesweepers during the 1980's ) ...

got another option on another forum : could be a brasero ( brazier ) , heated with coal , to give some comfort to the watch at the gangway while in harbour during cold weather .

could match , as those cans are put on a metallic floor ...

Anyway , I'll model them , whatever they are

Regards ,

laurent

Neptune · Post by **Neptune** » Tue May 15, 2007 5:58 am

Yes they used all types of oil, the more coherent, the better. Fish oil is however a pollutant too... Same counts for coconut oil etc. Such oils have to be carried in chemical tankers nowadays. You know, a sea gull sits on the sea, its wings messed up with oil etc. Same happens when they sit in a spot of coconut or fish oil.

Could indeed be a heater too if they are placed on metal decks. Do you have a side view of them? Does it rest on supports or directly on the deck?

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:44 am

Neptune wrote:Could indeed be a heater too if they are placed on metal decks. Do you have a side view of them? Does it rest on supports or directly on the deck?

no , no side view ...

no other source available about those ships anyway , I tried the "Belgian way" , through WW2 vets who could have known the ship or who might have had family on board between 1920 & 1940 ...

One of my colleagues had some pictures of his grand-father , who sailed on Zinnia in 1935-1937 , I saw them but they are useless , too much close-ups of the guy and his fellows , too little ship around them ...

There is a Zinnia model at the Army Museum at Brussels , but it is not really accurate , even if it obviously has been built from the admiralty plan ...

But it can be that those "G.I. cans" were a common fitting aboard RN ships , this is why I asked for it here ...

Thanks for your thoughts

Regards ,

laurent

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:58 am

just got an idea ...

could "G.I." be "garbage incinerator" ?

Laurent

Neptune · Post by **Neptune** » Tue May 15, 2007 7:50 am

Possible, but on the other hand, isn't the thing standing behind it a ventilation duct for the engine room? If so, it would be pretty stupid to see all the smoke from the incinerator being sucked into that ventilation duct.
And didn't they have bigger incinerators back then? Looks like a rather small diameter can too, compared to the hatch behind it. Of course it is possible...
Maybe someone else knows for sure.

klein loewietje · Post by **klein loewietje** » Wed May 16, 2007 1:31 pm

I only saw the term GI can once, in a (US?) navy book, unfortunately don't know wich one. It was a general pupose can, for tools or other stuf, fixed on dek so while doing deck works in bad weather you could place your equipement in it. GI meant, if I'm not mistaken, Galvanised Iron. Not a bad idea on the high seas I think.

Greetz, Johan

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Thu Jun 07, 2007 5:14 pm

Hi johan !

you could be right on this one , I think ...

galvanized iron cans ...

never thought of that

It's been a long while , but I was on vacation in France for three weeks , first to a modelling event , near Rochefort sur Mer .

a picture of me with my "Dundrum bay" in my hand :

the second RC sailing boat I had with me ( "Mount's Bay" , seagoing tug , two screws , scale 1/100 , length : 50 centimeters / 20 inches ):

the full thread ( in french ) , for the guys interested in something else ( 6 pages ):
http://forum.aceboard.net/5522-1862-332 ... ouland.htm

I also had the opportunity to visit the "Hermione" shipyard , "Hermione" being a XVIII century frigate , fully built at scale 1 following the original drawings , this was really an impressive sight , imagine a brand new HMS "Victory" during construction on the stocks

I then went to Britanny , near Brest , where I got the fantastic occasion to sail for an afternoon on board an old sail boat , a fisherman from 1939 , the "Berg�re de Domremy":

me at the helm :

this is not the "Berg�re" but she looks like this :

Here she is :

OK , this all had nothing to do with HMS Zinnia , I know ...

About Zinnia , I began with the hull plating .

She was built in steel , the plating being very thin , almost 1/4 of an inch , the frames being 21 inches spaced , I wanted to represent the full plating , following the IN & OUT system , as it was done on riveted ships at that time .

You know I have the shell expansion plan , I drew the plating on the hull already .

Meanwhile , I applied a coat of G4 resin on the cardboard , where the plating was drawn , to get an even & tough surface to put my plates on .

In my case , You guessed it , the plating will be made out of paper .

hereby some pictures of the hull before , coated with G4 , there are a lot of informations drawn on the hull:

1. all the strakes ( from "A" to "I" )
2. which strakes were IN , which strakes were OUT , some plates being IN & OUT
3 . all the riveted laps

at the main frame :

Where two strakes blend in one ( "B" & "C" become "B" , "D" & "E" become "D" , at the bow part of the ship ) :

the bow , you can clearly see the "brick wall" positioning of the plates

an unusual feature on Zinnia is that the "B" strakes are uneven , laps on the STBD side are a little more to the front than the ones on the port side , don't ask me why they did it that way

:

other pics :

the bow :

the "canoe" stern , we will see later on that plating this area is no problem at all

Of course , in our case , the first plating that has to be applied is the IN plating , as we cannot work from the inside .

I started with the keel part , the two "B" strakes :

the rounding of the plate riveted to the stern post :

further on the "B" strakes , to the bow :

for a better understanding of how plating was done , the keel strake ( "A") was always a OUT strake , the sheer strake at the decks level were also OUT strakes , the strake at the turn of the bilge ( "D" strake in case of Zinnia ) had to be also a OUT strake , this came not from a habit in shipbuilding , it was a Lloyds rule , as it was also a Admiralty rule :

those special strakes ( keel , turn of the bilge , sheer ) hat to be also a little thicker than the remaining of the plating , the keel was the part of the ship that was in contact with the wood blocks while the ship went in basin or on a drydock , the bilge strake was in contact with the ground in case of stranding , it also weared the bilge keel , the sheer was riveted to the decks , so it was one of the most important assembly on a riveted vessel , the joining of the hull plating to the deck plating .

I also worked on the "F" strake , which is also a IN strake , the works always begin from the stern of the ship , going front to the bow , logic as the laps were set to avoid water entry into the ship :

a close view of the laps :

If you have any question about this plating issue , just throw them here , I'll try to answer them .

Next time , I'll post more pictures of the IN plating , I'll then commence with the OUT plating , which will be in another paper colour , to let you see the differences , while the IN & OUT plates ( there are some at the bow , near the keel , will be in a thir different colour ...

Regards ,

Laurent

Foeth · Post by **Foeth** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:55 am

That's really a great sight! You sometimes see models with hull plating plans in musea of universities (we have/had a few). This was the pre-computer age way of determining the hull plating plan.

Andy G · Post by **Andy G** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 2:56 am

Marvellous stuff, Laurent. And I KNOW what paper-plating is like! (Still got about half a square metre to cover!

)

As to the Hermione - I think I may have seen this vessel back when she was just a few (very large) frames, in Douarnenez back in 96/97? Could that be right, or was it for something else?

Keep up the great work!

Andy

Laurent · Post by **Laurent** » Fri Jun 08, 2007 3:49 am

Hi Guys ,

thanks for the comments

I knew , when I ordered the plans at the NMM , that I would do the plating , so my first question to them regarding Zinnia was to know if they could supply me with the shell expansion plan ...

I ordered years ago the plans of Lusitania at the GUAS , I also have the sheel expansion plan for her

Andy ,

about your paper plating , what project are you working on ( sorry if I missed something on this very forum ) ?

You're right about Hermione , it's that one .

most of the hull planking is done by now , I couldn't take good pictures , as the whole hull is surrounded by scaffoldings , but indeed , it is an impressive sight .

They got after schedule anyway , they are desperatly seeking after funds , but the association hopes they should launch the ship in 2011 .

The main problem by now is that the Bureau Veritas , who inspects the ship and will grant her as sailing ship once , demands that she'll be fitted with a propulsion plant and some generators , while the association absolutely wants to get her ( almost ) finished as she came out back in the 1760's ...

just a matter to know if she will sail or not ...

Regards ,

Laurent