Calling all Borodino (Бородино) class (Tsushima 1905) fans

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Thu Oct 25, 2007 5:30 pm

Just like me being sure that I knew how railing on 152mm turrets looked like only to be proven wrong

Another advantage of sites like this, many heads (and eyes) are better than one (or two)!

wildspear · Post by **wildspear** » Sat Oct 27, 2007 8:52 pm

Here are some pics of the Oriol in progress.....

Yevgeniy · Post by **Yevgeniy** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:56 am

Hi, all,

First, very promising pictures of Oryol - impatiently wait to see the final one.

Second, there is a thread Difference between Borodino and Suvorov. Today it was added with a post containing info on what should be the real size of funnels:

http://www.shipmodels.info/mwphpBB2/vie ... c&start=30

My questions:
1) Shall we ask mods to unite this thread to this topic as we have quite useful info there?
2) How can we get funnels to this right size? I mean thickness. Personally I am not prepared to make my own forms and molds.
3) Also it seems that the person making the post I mentioned possesses knowledge on the subject. Would be very interesting to see the whole comparison of ready model vs. real drawging

Yevgeniy

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 7:57 am

Hi to all Borodino-fans!!

First of all – sorry for bad English…
I have a good collection of original plans and photos of the ships of Imperial Russian Navy, including Borodino-type battleship, and I shall be glad, if I can help you. Ask any questions...

I hope, that this album of original drawings of Borodino-type battleship, from my collection, will be interesting to you:

http://www.zshare.net/download/4504235f7bd6b7/

(ZIP-archive, 37,3 MB, 75 pages JPG - 300dpi)

Some reduced pages for an example:

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 9:59 am

Welcome Kronma! Your English is just fine and certainly much better than my Russian

Thanks for Orel's builders drawings folder. It is great to see so many of the original drawings especially as scans which can be shared much more easily than photocopies! You wouldn't, by any chance, to have something similar about Borodino herself?.

I LOVED your Suvorov/Borodino photomontage which you posted in another thread. You wouldn't have something like this with Borodino drawing overlaying Eastern Express' kit?

Please stick around for more questions. Once John (cerberusjf) will be back, I plan to start discussing Borodino in detail but for now: if there any way that we could take a peek at photos of the Borodino type battleships that you might have in your collection?
And maybe there is something that I can try help you with too?

All the best Darius

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:30 pm

DariusP wrote:Welcome Kronma! Your English is just fine and certainly much better than my Russian

Thank you!
Some words about railings on Borodino-type's secondary turret…
On this figure you can see the construction of their roof.

The railing's line has been changed to not stir to the sighting (The new line is shown by red color).
The used sleeves (carriage?) were thrown out through the hatches on a roof.
Also these hatches were used as emergency exits from a turret.
Thus, railings with a metal grid protected sleeves from falling for a board.
In this photo of SLAVA the used sleeves and a grid are visible.

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:38 pm

DariusP wrote:
I LOVED your Suvorov/Borodino photomontage which you posted in another thread. You wouldn't have something like this with Borodino drawing overlaying Eastern Express' kit?

Unfortunately, no.
I have made this photomontage specially for one of Russian forums.

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 2:58 pm

The word you are looking for is "cartridges" and not "sleeves" Kronma. But but what you wrote is clear enough as it stands

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:19 pm

DariusP wrote:The word you are looking for is "cartridges" and not "sleeves"

Thanks, has understood.

I have found a photo, where the metal grid is visible.
This is IMPERATOR ALEKSANDR III in Kronshtadt, 26 august 1904.

The grid was very thin, therefore it is visible only in good photos.
For example, here on this...

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 3:55 pm

Grat photos again Kronma!
Two questions:

1- could you possibly re-post the photo of Aleksander III without any additions? And are you sure it is Alekrander III? If so it would prove that Suvorov and Aleks.III did have square and not round portholes on their slylights (just like on Slava's model)
2- any idea what ship is shown on second photo? Bogatyr?

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 4:30 pm

DariusP wrote: 1- are you sure it is Alekrander III?

Yes, it is Aleksander…
It's only one photo from an album which is being the Central Navy Archive in St.Petersurgh, Russia. On one of photos of an album, the name of the ship - Aleksandr III, is visible.

DariusP wrote: If so it would prove that Suvorov and Aleks.III did have square and not round portholes on their slylights (just like on Slava's model)

Aleks, Suvorov and Slava precisely had square windows - there are photos.
The others - should be specified.

DariusP wrote: 2- any idea what ship is shown on second photo? Bogatyr?

Great!

You have almost guessed!
It's Bogatyr's sistership, constructed for Black Sea Fleet – OCHAKOV (KAGUL).

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:34 am

Some photos of model of a BORODINO-type battleship from the Central Naval Museum in St.Petersburgh.
Scale 1/48, about 1900 year.
On the first photo - the lost commanders of battleships…
This model is not an exact copy, but exhibition (“demonstration”) model. You can notice essential differences from the real ships.

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 4:05 pm

Couple of photos which I have show round portholes in Borodino's and Orel's skylights.

Kronma, is the model in the photos named (I mean "Suvorov" or "Borodino") or described just as "Borodino type"? And do you have by any chance anything which would make clear arrangement of cabins and shapes of the platforms on Borodino's and/or Orel's primary and secondary bridges (главный и кормовой мостик)?

wildspear · Post by **wildspear** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:06 am

Hey all,

I have a PE set for Borodino and I'm using parts of it for my Oriol. On the Borodino they have a captains walk that goes on the stern, did the Oriol have this captains walk?

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:51 am

DariusP wrote: is the model in the photos named (I mean "Suvorov" or "Borodino") or described just as "Borodino type"?

Unfortunately, it not the concrete ship.
It is demonstration model about "Borodino type"...

Though on a stern there is a name - BORODINO, the model is made on an original project which has changed later.

DariusP · Post by **DariusP** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:09 am

Kronma, the differences between the model and any particular Borodino class ship (just like you said) are obvious. Still, it is interesting to see the original "display model" even if just for curiosity value

You would't have any close-ups of Borodino bridges would you?

wildspear - yes, Orel did have sternwalk just like Borodino.

KRONMA · Post by **KRONMA** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 12:18 am

wildspear wrote:On the Borodino they have a captains walk that goes on the stern, did the Oriol have this captains walk?

Yes, all ships of this type had sternwalk.

Borodino-type's builders drawings folder is collected basically from drawings of the Oryol.

DariusP wrote: And do you have by any chance anything which would make clear arrangement of cabins and shapes of the platforms on Borodino's and/or Orel's primary and secondary bridges

It is very uneasy question which is already long discussed at Russian-speaking forums.

The same drawing could be used by the different ships.
For example this, made for BORODINO, was applied on SUVOROV and SLAVA.

Each drawing it is necessary to look separately and to compare to photos.

DariusP wrote:You would't have any close-ups of Borodino bridges would you?

To tell the truth, I am interested absolutely in other ships of Russian Navy.
Therefore, specially in this type of the ships was not engaged...
BORODINO:

cerberusjf · Post by **cerberusjf** » Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:22 pm

Wow, thanks very much for the pictures of the railings for Borodino/Orel Kronma, it has really helped to solve that problem. Thanks for explaining what all the "bumps" were as well, it's good to know what they are.

The Suvorov plan / Borodino model photo-montage is excellent and nicely shows the differences between the two. But I was wondering if it was actually Alexander III / Borodino? My only clue was the number of scuttles below the main turret....

The excellent photo that you posted of Alexander III shows I think quite clearly that they were just above knee height, possibly 1/2 full railing height. Unfortunatley that lady's hat is just in the way to let us see what happens around the sighting hood. Do you have any more that show this more clearly for Alexander III and Suvorov? Do they also folow a "T" shape?

Thanks
John

Rurik_II · Post by **Rurik_II** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:23 am

Yevgeniy Okhotnikov wrote:
I have bought a well-illustrated book "Russian - Japanese War at Sea 1905" written by A. Taras (editor is from Belorussia) with artist paintings as well as black-white photos. On all those photos Borodino class ship are black (as far as I can judge from contrast). On an artist picture Borodino is dark-grey (almost black).

Yevgeniy

Эту книгу лучше не использовать. Так как все что издается от Тараса пахнет отсебятиной и плагиатом.

cerberusjf · Post by **cerberusjf** » Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:38 am

Thanks for the pictures of the display model of Borodino from the St Petersburg museum.

As Darius says, the differences between this model and any of the Borodino class are fairly obvious. WEM seem to have used this model as a reference for their photo-etch set.

The Ship Model Forum

Calling all Borodino (Бородино) class (Tsushima 1905) fans

Oriol

Captains walk

Re: Captains walk