Calling all "Big 5" Tennessee-class & Colorado-class fans

[Haijun watcher]

The main prewar colour was #5 Standard Navy Grey - similar to 5-L but slightly darker and you can probably get away with using 5-L given scale effect, weathering, etc.

You can get a rough idea of the relative differences between the colours here: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/bo ... usn-1.html

Thanks Timmy for the reference.

When I painted the Trumpeter Maryland hull using Tamiya German Grey, the result was predictably much lighter than the Dark Grey I expected and recommended by Sean F on the previous page(without the black mixed in).

However, in your link above, the #5 Standard Navy Grey looks much more closer to the German Grey I just used.

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So if I was to backdate the Trumpeter Maryland 1941 kit to 1940, the configuration of AA Positions that came with the kit shouldn't require too many changes, if any, I take it?

In the Maryland's wiki entry, all it says is that her only major AA upgrades happened in 1928-29. I assuming then that she had had no major upgrades then to her AA suite through the 1930s up until 1940-41?

She was overhauled in 1928�1929, and the eight 3 in (76 mm) anti-aircraft guns were replaced by eight 5 in (130 mm)/25 cal guns.[8]

This earlier navsource photo of her from the 1920s and 30s could be of help to those who backdate even further.

[SeanF]

Sorry about that. German Gray looks to be the darkest gray Tamyia makes, hence the suggestion. I thought NATO Black XF-69 might be a bit too dark for scale; but then perhaps it's off-black enough to pull it off.
(I usually work in Model Master enamels, and their Panzer Dark Gray 1939 is a really dark gray that gives you some room for adding even darker washes, but I guess the Tamiya one must've turned out much lighter than expected.)

As for why no one was discussing the prewar standard gray in context of the Trumpeter Maryland. it's a simple answer: I don't think Maryland was ever painted that way in the fit the kit represents, and to back-date her means to remove the bulges entirely along with some other tweaks. Since there seemed a chance that the upcoming West Virginia might lack the hull bulges, it seemed like a topic not worth discussing at this time.

The main prewar colour was #5 Standard Navy Grey - similar to 5-L but slightly darker and you can probably get away with using 5-L given scale effect, weathering, etc.

You can get a rough idea of the relative differences between the colours here: http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/bo ... usn-1.html

Thanks Timmy for the reference.

When I painted the Trumpeter Maryland hull using Tamiya German Grey, the result was predictably much lighter than the Dark Grey I expected and recommended by Sean F on the previous page(without the black mixed in).

However, in your link above, the #5 Standard Navy Grey looks much more closer to the German Grey I just used.

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So if I was to backdate the Trumpeter Maryland 1941 kit to 1940, the configuration of AA Positions that came with the kit shouldn't require too many changes, if any, I take it?

In the Maryland's wiki entry, all it says is that her only major AA upgrades happened in 1928-29. I assuming then that she had had no major upgrades then to her AA suite through the 1930s up until 1940-41?

She was overhauled in 1928�1929, and the eight 3 in (76 mm) anti-aircraft guns were replaced by eight 5 in (130 mm)/25 cal guns.[8]

This earlier navsource photo of her from the 1920s and 30s could be of help to those who backdate even further.

[SeanF]

I bought a bottle of Tamiya NATO Black and tested it. Good and dark, and just off-black enough to take a dark wash. This is the one you'll want to use for 5-D if you'e running Tamiya.

- Sean F.

[Haijun watcher]

I bought a bottle of Tamiya NATO Black and tested it. Good and dark, and just off-black enough to take a dark wash. This is the one you'll want to use for 5-D if you'e running Tamiya.

- Sean F.

Thanks. I tested it myself and already painted my Maryland hull and other sprues accordingly. I probably will also use the same colour for the Dragon Arizona to Nevada 1941 conversion I am mulling.

[SeanF]

I bought a bottle of Tamiya NATO Black and tested it. Good and dark, and just off-black enough to take a dark wash. This is the one you'll want to use for 5-D if you'e running Tamiya.

- Sean F.

Thanks. I tested it myself and already painted my Maryland hull and other sprues accordingly. I probably will also use the same colour for the Dragon Arizona to Nevada 1941 conversion I am mulling.

It does leave the model looking stupidly dark... but then 5-D was, in fact, stupidly dark.
Looking at the dried paint this morning, it is darker than it looked as I sprayed it on last night; I think we may have a winner here for an acrylic out-of-the-bottle 5-D for general usage!

I've converted a Dragon Arizona hull to a Nevada. There's a lot more involved than you might think if you're really trying to do it right. Might want to wait until the 1:700 Texas is available, as you can graft on portions of the bow and the 14" twin turret barbettes (plus the 14" twins themselves.)
At the rate things are going, though, I don't expect it'll be too many more years before an injection Nevada comes along.

- Sean F.

[Timmy C]

Steve G. has given an excellent OOB impression of the 1/700 West Virginia kit, comparing it to the Maryland kit: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=156997

[Steve]

With expectations that Trumpeter will release their 1/700 kit of the California this year can anyone provide a link or very general advice on how she differs from the Tennessee at Pearl Harbor? Looking to compare the sisters now to assess if Trumpeter is "planning" to issue a Tennessee that may not be just a duplicate kit of the California.

[Brian K.]

There some significant superstructure differences between California and Tennessee. The bridge structure on California is the big difference, California like Pennsylvania was design to be a flagship and the main structure on California was very unique out of the Big 5. I think you could build a Tennessee bridge by combining parts from the Maryland and West Virginia kits, I think the Colorado's bridge is identical to Tennessee but I could be wrong since I've not found a good reference for Colorado.

[Steve]

There some significant superstructure differences between California and Tennessee. The bridge structure on California is the big difference, California like Pennsylvania was design to be a flagship and the main structure on California was very unique out of the Big 5. I think you could build a Tennessee bridge by combining parts from the Maryland and West Virginia kits, I think the Colorado's bridge is identical to Tennessee but I could be wrong since I've not found a good reference for Colorado.

Very interesting! No reason for Trumpeter not to do both the California (already listed) and the Tennessee. They do list the Colorado 1941 but not the 1944 already out in Japan under the SkyWave label (strange!). If the Tennessee bridge is a combination of the already released kits, it is even easier for Trumpeter to bring her to market. Having the 5" 38 twin mounts already on a sprue (N) suggests a 1944 Maryland is also a possibility. That would give us a total of seven kits, all 5 in 1941 and 2 in 1944 outfits. Post PH versions of both the Colorado and the Tennessee (before reconstruction) are also possible.

[Frank Fowler]

Another difference between the Tennessee and California is the shape of the 01 level. This is the deck the superstructure, funnels, boats, etc are on and the housing structure for the 5"/51 guns. They are different between the two ships. If Trumpeter is using the old Pitroad/Waveline models as a guide they should pick this difference up since the two resin kits have the different correct shapes as per plans of the two ships. The shapes are also different from the Maryland/West Virginia/Colorado so you cannot just use parts from one of these kits for a Tennessee.

Also the Tennessee did not have reinforcing ribs on the 5"/25 and 3"/1.1" gun tub splinter shields. Pitroad missed this on their resin Tennessee and put the ribs on the shields. Pitroad also failed to add the 4 gun tubs for the 3"/1.1" guns on their kit, but you can see the tubs and 3" guns in photos of Tennessee taken just after December 7.

[PeteM]

I know these questions have been answered before but I've looked through a couple of threads but can't seem to find the answers. I have the Maryland and Oklahoma kits in hand and the West Virginia kit on the way. As far as colors go were all three still in MS 1 at the time of the Pearl Harbor attack? And what were the turret top colors for these 3 ships? Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[ah3000mk1]

Howdy,Y'all.

With the arrival of the Trumpy West Virginia, is anybody considering a conversion to a pre-war or PH Tennessee/California?

I've had the spare triple turrets from the Maryland kit built up now for months. A search of the www.inter-web failed (so far) to turn up any available plans for either ship at that time ('40-41); those I found are all for the post-PH refits. A couple of great builds in the Picture Post section show there are significant differences in bridge platforms, fighting tops, and AA fit from the Colorados.

Could anyone suggest a good reference or where drawings of the superstructures might be obtained? I plan to draft and print/fab a few parts to make such a conversion more accurate.

[ah3000mk1]

Absolutely! I've just gotten a Warship Profile 21- USS Tennessee copy on order, and a prewar plan set would be great. Between the two, and a few other odds and ends, luckily I can cipher out additions of gun tubs, sensors, etc. From the builds in the gallery, it appears there are some moderate differences in the bridge layout from BB-45/46/47.

Stuff I've picked out so far includes boat stowage, placement of 5"-25's, shape of the top 2 or 3 bridge levels, fighting top shape (narrower ends), radar fit, and misc gun placements. If I recall, one ship at least had 3" guns near where the Colorados had 1.1" quads.

[Steve]

Following up on previous posts, I do not think the Tennessee's bridge structure is basically the same as the 1941 Colorado class ships. This is based on some photos but mostly on reviews of Tennessee resin kits found here on MWS. I looked at the 1/350 Classic and 1/700 Midship reviews for comparison to the Trumpeter WV and MD kits. Trumpeter has not yet posted any details of the 1941 Colorado and their 1944 Colorado shows bridge details similar to the WV and MD kits. The most significant difference between the Colorado's and the Tennessee appears to be the position of the bridge mounted AA gun tubs which are further aft. That can also be seen in the low sun profile photo (March 1942) which is on pg. 15 of Simmons' book - USS Tennessee in WW II. Since the 1942 refit was a "rush" effort it is probable that the bridge structure was not altered at that time. Warship Series #5 - Volunteer State Battlewagon by Myron Smith - has the same picture and a profile drawing as of May 1942. I guess I have to wait and see what Trumpeter offers when they release the California and hopefully the Tennessee kits.

[Brian K.]

Sorry to disagree but Tennessee's bridge is very close to Maryland and West Virginia, I have the Pitroad 1941 Tennessee , California, Maryland and West virginia 1/700 resin kits along with Loose Cannon 1942 Colorado and of course the Trumpeter Maryland and West Virginia plastic kits. A good reference photo can be found in Stan Cohen's book "East Wind Rain" on page 48, also this same photo a smaller copy is in "ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR" also by Stan Cohen. Another good photo of Tennessee bridge structure is in the book "THE WAY IT WAS PEARL HARBOR" on page 79 photo 6-54. Of course their some differences mostly small changes to the platforms above the main navigation level. Some more good pictures of Tennessee (mostly 1930's) can be found in AJ Press "BIG FIVE" part 1. Now the 01 deck (Boat deck?) is very different along with the main 5/25 AA arrangement, this was mentioned earlier by Frank Fowler and would be a major scratch build undertaking to correct. Also Frank pointed out the Pitroad resin Tennessee is missing its bridge AA platforms, I only hope Trumpeter releases a Tennessee since they've not listed it only California is listed.

[ah3000mk1]

@Brian K,

Could you elaborate on the 01 level... is it very different in outline, or (just) placement of boats, weapons, and shields?
The WV kit differs from the Maryland by a small extension on the aft end of the 02 level, don't know if that's similar to Tennessee.

@All

Just got a copy of Profile Warship #21, by W.H. Cracknell, Cmdr, USN, from Profile Publications, 1972. While early pics are sparse, there is a blow-by-blow description of armament changes. Fire control apparatus is listed as well.

It appears the forward pair of 5"-51's weren't removed from the 02 level until after PH. It looks like 8 5"-25's were fitted, three on the 02 level and two by the main mast. It's unclear if they were in tubs or behind shields in '40-41, the shields seem to have been added after the first post-PH repair job at Bremerton. Two 3"-50's were fitted in tubs just below the bridge wings. Small AA appears to have consisted of 50-cal's, on the fighting tops, and a pair is listed in tubs near the foremast; (I'm wondering if these were actually near the mainmast as was done on Maryland).

As for platforms, thanks to those corresponding by PM. I haven't turned up anything more of note myself, other than the armament description above.

[Brian K.]

Yes the outline as seen from above is different and so is placement of the AA their splinter shielding and boats. If you want a pic of the Pitroad kit's 01 deck send me an email and I'll send you a photo. California's 01 deck (boat deck?) is close to Tennessee's but has some small outline differences which the Pitroad kit shows. A nice above plan view of California in 1936 fit in 1/400 scale is included in the AJ PRESS "BIG FIVE" part 1 book. email:sbkotula@bellatlantic.net

[gtbred]

rebuilding 3 of my big5.

[MartinJQuinn]

Some great photos of the Maryland's aft cage mast from Life:

http://images.google.com/hosted/life/9d ... 84e40.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/98 ... b3f4e.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/82 ... b18f3.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/f1 ... 91ee4.html
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/7b ... 79111.html

Interesting view of the details on the cage masts. Photos were taken by Margaret Bourke-White in September 1939.

[MartinJQuinn]

Updated/edited first post in topic with list of available Pre-War Big 5 kits and gallery entries. I did not include OOP kits (Waveline, BlueWater Navy, etc).

If I've missed anything, please PM me and I'll add it.