The Ship Model Forum

About this aerial view of the AO-87 Sebec: one of the most important photos as documentation for this project, I didn't have the image in high resolution and therefore we couldn't see clearly some details like the armament, last night I found them on Wikimedia simply in very good quality.

Clic two time to enlarge:


So I was able to analyze the weaponry, there is still a blur on the type of the 4 guns on the upper bridge of the middle castle, 4 Oerlikon 20 mm with no protection plate ? I cannot distinguish their protection shield, or simple machine guns ?

The details.

I'm going to try to add this block on the front deck where the winch of the mast is placed, I had not seen this detail ...
You can also see the storage along this block of probable fenders that are used during the refueling at sea, they are called "Baby fenders". You can see them placed along the hull on the other picture.
At the back of the front platforms of the central deck, near the canoe, we can see the gangway, also to be added.


A nice picture.

I made a summary:



















Oerlikons without protective shield on other ships:





I have finished the half-platforms.

Paintings of the utility boats, still the booting top to be painted, crown buoys to be placed, bers to be redone, not high enough now.

Cargo mast supports to draw.

Probably a good guess on the 20 mm on the bridge. This was a common installation on the APA's as well. A giveaway is the presence of the 20 mm ready box right behind them. The barrels are so close on the twin Orlikons that one really can't tell in the photo. I expect that replacement with twins was a common late war modification, but who knows. Twins might have two boxes as there were left and right magazines.

Hi Pascal,

First, let me say that I'm enjoying watching your progress, great work. I've got a 3d printer similar to yours and am now getting all kinds of ideas for new projects.

On the fifth picture up in your latest postings that shows the stern you identify some objects as "Deep Charges". Are you sure about that? Couple of reasons I ask; first, oilers don't have sonar so they'd be deaf to any subsurface activity. Second, I don't see anything that looks like roller racks or k-guns to deploy the depth charges. Even the small ones used on the k-guns weighted in at 200lbs (90kgs). Too heavy to casually throw over the side. The last place a Task Group Commander is going to want an oiler is in the area of a known submarine. Having heard oilers on sonar I can attest that they make enough noise to drown out just about any subsurface noise.

Just my thoughts. Keep up the great work, really good stuff.

Bruce

Thanks Tom.

To compare.

bwross11 wrote:Hi Pascal,

First, let me say that I'm enjoying watching your progress, great work. I've got a 3d printer similar to yours and am now getting all kinds of ideas for new projects.

On the fifth picture up in your latest postings that shows the stern you identify some objects as "Deep Charges". Are you sure about that? Couple of reasons I ask; first, oilers don't have sonar so they'd be deaf to any subsurface activity. Second, I don't see anything that looks like roller racks or k-guns to deploy the depth charges. Even the small ones used on the k-guns weighted in at 200lbs (90kgs). Too heavy to casually throw over the side. The last place a Task Group Commander is going to want an oiler is in the area of a known submarine. Having heard oilers on sonar I can attest that they make enough noise to drown out just about any subsurface noise.

Just my thoughts. Keep up the great work, really good stuff.

Bruce

Tks Bruce!

I have this picture fo the device on USS Ponaganset (AO-86), we want to know now witch type of ? :



http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/19/19086.htm





AO-83:



This one type or..



Personal picture:

This other one:

Fliger747 wrote:This might be a simpler and more typical K gun, in this case as found on a Fletcher Class Destroyer.

Interesting link:

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WAMBR_ASW.php

I didn't spot a davit for reloading the charges or a dedicated rack for spares (maybe I missed it) so I further wonder about their possible employment. Perhaps diversion to make a sub think a hunting destroyer was in the area?

Well, I stand corrected.

My curiosity was aroused so I did some searching, and I did find another picture of an oiler, different class, that you can clearly see the k-gun and 3 extra charges. I cannot imagine any Task Group commander telling an oiler to make a run on a sub! Probably more of a diversion as it cleared the area. And Pascal, in the picture I found it was definitely a USN Mark 6 launcher.

Learn something new everyday!

Bruce

Interesting the ship carries two 26' motor whaleboats. Both Hank Strub and I drove these at one point. Pretty ubiquitous, even Alaska carried two of these. On Alaska I carved these two from basswood, one with a "cowl", used as the Captain's Gig I would guess.

I can actually see the tanker lobbing a K gun salvo or two to keep a sub "Doggo" longer as a convoy makes it's exit. The twin screw Cimmaron's had enough speed to probably outpace a U Boot in a seaway.

An interesting ship, these. The Auxilliries were working ships and had well drilled crews, maybe lacking the glamor of the combatants and make for very interesting models. My next ship may be an ARL.

Tks David, yes indeed.

DavidP wrote:Pascal, 20mm guns with shields on top of bridge structure.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/19/091908701.jpg USS Sebec (AO-87) refueling an Escort Carrier (CVE) at sea, 2 October 1944
http://www.navsource.org/archives/09/19/19087.htm

Kennebec class:


@Tom :

On Alaska I carved these two from basswood, one with a "cowl", used as the Captain's Gig I would guess.

On Pamanset, there was a "Cowl" on forward, have not a picture of this type of 26', made of linen or wood?:



Indeed, we don't see also the K-Gun charging mast on the pictures.

Deep charge Projector MK6 :

https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/dept ... /index.htm





Depth Charge Release Tracks and Associated Equipment:

https://maritime.org/doc/destroyer/depthtrack/index.htm





Depth Charges, Mark 6, Mark 6 Mod. 1, Mark 7, Mark 7, Mod. 1, OP 747, 1943, covers the U.S.N. depth charge from the first half of WW II.

https://maritime.org/doc/depthcharge6/index.htm

Another interessant booklet:

https://maritime.org/doc/nstm/ch583.pdf





More here: https://archive.hnsa.org/conf2004/papers/rizzuto.htm





From Shapeway:







26' MOTOR WHALEBOAT(w)CANOPY

https://floatingdrydock.com/fittings.htm



https://www.powerboatlistings.com/view/54788#



















NAVSEA 0905-501-4010. TITLE OF MANUAL: Boat Information Book - 26' Motor Whaleboat - MK10. :

http://manuals.chudov.com/Navy-MK10-Wha ... Manual.pdf

Generally speaking, the 26' MTB was either open or provided with a cowl. Originally, these were more than likely canvas over a curved metal frame, later (post WWII?) the canvas was replaced with Herculite, a synthetic material, and in the 50's/60's these cowls were molded fiberglass. This was the case on my DD in the mid-60s. The cowl gave protection from the elements and was used as a "Captain's Gig" for official command type travel.
Here is one from 1943 w/canvas cowl: Pascal - I see you included a link to the U.S.N. small boats & craft publication - it is dated 1992 - I would be a bit cautious of referencing material that is not in the timeline of your model - if possible, finding a similar 1940s wartime document would give much more "timely" information. These technical documents change with time and therefore don't always provide the correct information when building a model from another era, etc.

Hope this helps,
Hank

Thanks for the picture Hank, that's exactly right.

An excellent HD picture took on BB-63:



Davit:

The really ancient ones I drove (a good handling boat) were piloted from the stern sheets with a tiller and one gave throttle commands to the motorman via a bell. On Alaska (1:192) I modeled one open and one with a canvas cowl, which I simulated with wire hoops and tissue which was applied like model airplane skin.

Interesting davits, yet another variation of the myriad of types out there!

Cheers: Tom

Yes, Bell and direct rudder:

On Missouri note the large rope bumpers. There are bumpers stored in this position today, but are large Rubber items. Nice hi rez photo!

Fliger747 wrote:On Missouri note the large rope bumpers. There are bumpers stored in this position today, but are large Rubber items. Nice hi rez photo!

Tks for the interessant information, i think that is the same rope bumpers on Hornet CV-8 ? that was a question on this post:


viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4866&p=915538#p915538

Ian Roberts wrote:I really don't think those are fueling at sea hoses -- attaching a blown up view from that same photo linked above. You can clearly see the rubber sections of the floater net in the larger view:



For what it's worth, I've noticed floater nets stored this way on many ships early in the war (I suspect before the "neat and seamanlike" baskets became more widespread) -- cruiser and battleship installations come to mind, with floater nets simply piled on turret roofs.

<----- See previous page.

Nice movie:

"Training on use of a motor whale boat and rescue crew to rescue a downed US Navy pilot:"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3iwg0Xe1Vc

In a free trade economy the real values are discovered. During WWII the toll for exchange back to a carrier of a recovered pilot was 5 gallons of ice-cream.

Perhaps Hank knows if the price fluctuated during Vietnam?