Calling all IJN Aoba (青葉) and Kinugasa (衣笠) fans

[Dan K]

Actually, I'll use the photo of Aoba's #1 funnel, which also displays her foremast. There's a 2kw signal lamp out on her yardarm, as indicated by the arrow on the right. Kinugasa's was closer to the mast, location indicated by the left arrow.

[DrPR]

For what it is worth, the United States Strategic Bombing Survey produced a book "The Campaigns of the Pacific War" that lists organizations of the US and Japanese fleets involved in campaigns during the war, starting with Pearl Harbor. It was produced immediately after the end of the war, based upon captured documents and interviews with over 700 Japanese military, government and industrial individuals.

It was an attempt to record the Japanese versions of the battles and is almost entirely a description of the Japanese naval activities in World War Two. It contains little propaganda or biased comments, and often is very critical of the US Navy. Very interesting reading!

The book lists the compositions of the forces involved in battles. For example, for the battle of Savo Island on 8 August, 1942, it lists the following Japanese forces (Appendix 38, page 108):

Cruiser division 6
Chokai (CA) (F) Admiral Mikawa IJN
Aoba (CA)
Furataka (CA)
Kinugasa (CA)
Kako (CA)

Cruiser Division 18
Tenryu (CL)
Tatsuta (CL)
One destroyer (not named)

It also tells damage to ships, includes charts of the action based upon Japanese charts (Appendix 39), and a narrative description of the events of the battle based upon captured orders, ship logs and accounts from Japanese survivors (page 106).

For some battles photos and ship diagrams are included showing armaments and battle damage. There are 112 appendices showing charts, fleet orders, fleet compositions, battle losses, etc. It is a wealth of information about the Japanese Navy in WWII.

It does contain a disclaimer saying that the information was compiled quickly after the end of the war and may contain some errors.

****

The Campaigns of the Pacific War
United States Strategic Bombing Survey (Pacific)
Naval Analysis Division
United States Government Printing Office
Washington
1946
395 pages

Phil

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

hi, Dan if the "2kw" transponder signal light was invented for the modernization work, this light is too small as such. This can be other light than the 2kw power lamp...

After the modernization, I bet both Aoba and Kinugasa must have the 2kw signal light in the same place on the signal yard of the foremast...

As to the 2kw signal light on the rear mast, the first step to take will be to confirm where on the rear mast Aoba had it, then, one can slowly go and compare it with that of Kinugasa,,, that was the way I did it last year. Pleasures never end whe a ship is shrowded with mysterious parts..... When solved, I tend to lose interests, uha.

BR
mucho,

[Dan K]

After the modernization, I bet both Aoba and Kinugasa must have the 2kw signal light in the same place on the signal yard of the foremast...

I'm not so sure but, I have to rely on whatever information I have as reference. This is one of several images from the "Combined Fleet At Its Zenith" volume. It is identified as Kinugasa (it's clearly one of the Aobas), and it is after modernization.

I don't have a photo that shows the 2kw light on the mainmast, at least after modernization.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

for DrPR
I seldom see and read the book you mentioned. Indeed, the battles of the Solomons are descrived from page 105 to 117 in that book, yea. The desclaimer in it is valid enough,I think more info has been put forward since 1946.
More correctly, the 6th Cru Div and 18 Sentai were put under command of the 8th Fleet with Chikai as fs.
DD Yunagi followed the hapharzardly planned operation,but failed to take part in action.

Accoridng to a book ,The Iron Bottom( ?????japanese)by ijn capt. Takahashi Yuji, skipper of heavy cruiser Kako, vice ad. Mikawa Gunichi allegely was rejoiced over the number 8 prior to the battle,that nr.8 being the symbol of success and prosperity, his fleet number is 8th,numbers of fighting ships as 8, date of the sea battle being taking place on 8/8, the admiiral is born on August, 1888.
Naturally in light of the fact this battle had little effect on the strategy of the Solomon area,it will be another question, though

for Dan,
.Pls try to see the photo of the damage Aoba, the rear mast 2kw signal light ougth to be here,it�s base seen narrowly.The light seems to have been torn apart by bomb damage or something, it�s base is clearly seen on one of Kure photos by vice adm. Bogan collection.
.and in other Aoba photo(s) 1941.hopefully.


/mucho,

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

A bit better image of Kinugasa,the fwd mast.
You will soon find out Aoba has it at athe same place,
as a short cut to a solution, coz i cant spend much time on replying, i�m too busy with the buidling actually

mucho
bye for now,
have a nice continued search,

[MatthewB]

Sooooo.....

So the signal light is in the same place on the forward mast, but a different place on the main mast?

And I am jealous of actual building.

Everything has come to a screeching halt here, while I both wait for an Airbrush compressor and for my shoulder and arm to work again (the partial paralysis on my left side became complete over the last week - it does that every now and then).

I am sitting looking at a very nearly completed 1935-38 Fuso, a 42 Agano, a 1944 Akizuki, a '41 Fubuki, an older Hasegawa kit of the Kinugasa, alongside some newer kits (Nagara, Sendai, Aoba and Kinugasa, USS SF, USS Helena, and USS Chicago) that I can't do a whole lot with due to having no left hand to use.

I just need to finish painting the first set. And the Second set needs a bunch of parts painted before I can assemble any more.

It makes for gluing things more than a little difficult.

But I am wondering what to use to make the signal lights on the masts.

Where they just a typical cylindrical lamp, or were they shaped more like a spotlight?

MB

[Dan K]

Not surprisingly, Mucho is correct about Aoba's placement. Further searching brought me the colorized photo below of Aoba. Which means that the citation for the timing of the Aoba funnel #1 photo is incorrect.

Mucho scratchbuilds in 1/100. His Furutaka was the centerpiece of Gakken vol # 44

You have two choices about the 2kw light. Either scratchbuild one out of styrene, or spring for FIneMolds Nanodread set WA-5, item #5

[MatthewB]

I think that I can manage a scratch built signal-light.

It looks like a piece of clear Styrene can be easily shaped into the light.

Come to think of it, though, I might have one of the Nano Dread searchlight sets, which means that I would have the signal-lights.

I guess the Kinugasa Photo Etch set will work for both kits in 1942. I would just need to alter the funnels, and the masts to reflect the differences.

I suppose that I will be stressing over the differences between the Kako and Furutaka in another couple of months, when I need to build them as well in the same 1942 outfit.

Oh!

And just to make sure I am not hallucinating it.

The 1942 photos of the Aoba, above, look like the rangefinder/director on the bridge superstructure is painted white.

I read that they did this for the Aoba and Kinugasa to aid in recognition. Would that have been to all ships in CruDiv6 as well?

There is a scene in the old TV show Farscape, toward the end of the Third Season, where D'Argo, and Rigel have to meet with Scorpius to arrange for John to come aboard a Command Carrier to pretend to help work on Wormholes.

Stay with me here....

While "negotiating" the place they are meeting is robbed by a "gang" of aliens (two aliens), who are in actuality hired to pull an insurance job by the owner of the restaurant where the group is meeting. The Aliens are a kind of cross between monkeys and rats.

AS things go from bad to worse, with the aliens having one after another of their schemes to profit from the debacle fall through, the "boss" alien gang leader screeches:

"WHY SO COMPLICATED!!!"

That's how I feel about this sometimes. It seems like JUST as I have tracked down a solution, something rears its ugly head to complicate things further.

MB

[Dan K]

Yes to the white tops for all Sentai 6 ships.

"WHY SO COMPLICATED!!!"

In a word: IJN

[MatthewB]

OK...

I am currently working on the Aoba as one of my Ships, and the Kinugasa Detail kit just got here to do both the Kinugasa and the Aoba for their 1942 Guadalcanal Period (I previously just had one of the Rainbow detail kits for the Aoba-class/Kinugasa)

I have been going through the thread to catalog differences between the two ships, and I have found the following things, so far:

1. The layout of the deck on the Kinugasa (???) was more similar to that of the Myoko than of the Aoba in 1942.
2. The Bow Fairlead shape (There is a dip Bow between the crest and the Fairlead of the Kinugasa, whereas the Aoba has a straight line between the two)
3. The forward masts of the two ships are slightly different, with the Aoba having a slightly lower middle yardarm than the Kinugasa
4. The Degaussing Cable path (The Aoba looks to have the Degaussing Cable jump up before it gets to the Aircraft platform deck, whereas the Kinugasa Degaussing Cable does not jump up until it is underneath the forward end of the Torpedo Tubes mounted under the Aircraft Handling Deck).
5. The Funnel/Stack exhaust pipes (The Kinugasa has more exhaust pipes on the stacks than does the Aoba, and they are in a different pattern).
6. The signal light on the forward mast

So, I have already addressed a few of these things.

Just checking that this is all I need to worry about.

MB

[Dan K]

Mucho is really the one to validate this information, Mathew. I'm good on #s 2, 5, & 6. I can't speak to #1; #4 is open to interpretation.

About # 3 - the yardarms for both ships were reduced to just one main yardarm after their last major refit. It's hard to say whether Aoba's is really lower than Kingasa's. You'd need a photo taken from the same angle for both ships to verify it.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

Seasons�greeting for Aoba class CA lovers , incl MatthewB and Dan,

They say seeing is believing for most of cases,oh yea.

[MatthewB]

Seasons�greeting for Aoba class CA lovers , incl MikeB and Dan,

They say seeing is believing for most of cases,oh yea.

OK. While that is a beautiful and informative image (to a degree), as we say in the Sciences "The Axes are not labeled" (meaning: "What are we looking at, Mucho?").

That looks like the mainmast, and not the foremast.

Not that I much care, as I need to know both.

And, what year/period is this from? It looks late-30s-ish.

MB

[Dan K]

That is Aoba's upper mainmast, though not certain of the timeframe.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

o la la,
30�ies out of the question.

I chose to deal with Aoba class of 40�ies.
sooooooooooooo,30�es out of scope of interest and concern by me.

What about other guys, I dunno know.

Do have a fun,still more.
---------------------------------------
ps. maybe it was too early to have introduced the illust even in a rough way,
coz I fear people are not wide-awoke yet.

[MatthewB]

So, what are the two signal lights that are circled?

One of them, I imagine, is where the Aoba's Signal Light on the Mainmast is located, and the other the Kinugasa's.

But which is which?

MB

[Dan K]

Aoba's is the one actually depicted on the mainmast.

[Mutsuo Sasaki]

early bird catches worms,,,
then the image is gone now.

Met xxxxs chielf editor at Tokyo this sept.
About what will be happening,I�m not in a position yet..

[Dan K]

Seaon's greetings, Mucho.

So, why did the meeting take place?