Calling all Royal Navy Tribal-class fans

[Brett Morrow]

post deleted

[Cliffy B]

Awesome gentlemen, thank you!!! So good old 5-N it is then since I'm shooting for a 1944 or 45 era scene. One last question then, what would the decks have been? Is 20-B a safe bet or would they have gone with a dark gray (507A?)?

http://www.navy.gov.au/hmas-warramunga-i
http://www.navy.gov.au/sites/default/fi ... ies_0.jpeg
This shot says its Warramunga pier side following VJ Day. She's obviously still in 5-N like you said but what do you make of the mast? It also looks like the tops of the funnels and maybe part of the mast are black with the upper part of the mast in some sort of lighter color, 5-L maybe? Beginning to revert to peacetime colors maybe? Just wondering.


Just need to find some small capital "D's" now. I can probably slice up a ship's stern name for a few and the numbers can come from generic USN sheets. Was there a period used when "D" was carried or only when "I" was carried? The camo sheet says yes but a painting of the ship (from the flickr site) and the models posted show no period. Just want to be as close as I can.

Brett you're making me want to get 2 kits now so I can do one up in that dazzle scheme! I'll keep that one on the list for sure

[RNfanDan]

Cliffy B,

Did you receive my e-mail?

Thanks,
Dan

[Perth_shipyard]

The stack tops are black, the part of the mast that looks black is most probably soot from the stack. The top could be 5L grey. As warramunga was part of task force 74 until the end of the war she had the prefix D until the end. As for the decks, my mate who's building Arunta has the decks as deck blue for the period she was in USN blue sides. I assume you could do the same.

The model of hobart is depicted as of 1944 I believe and Arunta 1945. You should definitely do two or even three! In camo as delivered, late war with mods in USN blue and then after the war with mods in RN boring grey

[Perth_shipyard]

A clear photo of Arunta in overall blue. Quite a clear shot and you can also see that the top of the mast is lighter than the rest of the ship.



And a US destroyer sporting blue with an almost white mast top?


I think you'll be safe with a dirty white for the mast top.

[Cliffy B]

Excellent again gents, thank you very much! 5-L, 20-B, and black it is then I'll stick with 5-N for this project but the dazzle scheme is certainly added to the list. Now I just need to find some RAN ensigns right? They were different from the RN white ensigns at the time right?

Dan, yes I did and thanks. I'll reply in length this evening.

[Perth_shipyard]

The RAN white ensign was the same as the RN white ensign until 1961??? Give or take a year that's when the RAN changed to the Australian White Ensign. So if your kit has the RN white ensign you'll be fine to use that. If you fly the white ensign in the 'in port position' from the ensign staff, Australian ships have always flown the Australian national flag from the jack staff and not the Union Jack since the inception of the ANF.

If you fly the white ensign from the after mast on the gaff the ANF is flown from the mast head of the main (fore) mast in the 'at sea position'.

*edit - RAN changed over in 1967 from the RN white ensign to the Australian white ensign*

[Brett Morrow]

post deleted

[Redshirt]

Ive got an aditional question. The propeller guards on Trumpies Huron seem odd and unlike any others i have seen on destroyers. Do you know of any replacement photo etched guards? I have some spare ones from a discontinued Benson kit but i somewhat doubt that they would be the right ones

[Cliffy B]

So if the ships are depicted in WWII I'll need an RN white ensign AND an Australian flag then (and have them flying in the proper positions), correct? Standard blue ensign is the National Flag for this time period correct? A quick search highlighted how "varied" the Australian flag can be.

Brett - After looking at that photo you just posted I'm tending to think that the censor might have had a whirl with it. The forward mast in particular just plain looks weird. You can see the three legs come together and then there's nothing above it. Would make me want to think the censor nicked the radar(s) and the entire upper mast. Maybe that's where the goalpost went too?

[Brett Morrow]

Would like to think you are correct Cliffy about the censor but I can`t see any reason for censoring because it wars end, pic is not of the best quality, and as time goes by they get manipulated.

As I stated I did want to confirm this issue but the assoc did not respond, and these type of queries can only be truly confirmed by previous crew, the AWM are very vague with these issues, not much help at all and very often incorrect.
I have 2 shots of Warra for this exact period along with the large res shot at the wharf, and they appear to be very unique.
It was my intention to prepare a colour profile of Warra late 44 but could not proceed without definite confirmation.

The book `The Destroyers, their battles and badges`by Vic Cassells states on pg 184 that Lt commander John Alliston bypassed the red tape to have the bofors fitted, and definitely points out the removal of the secondary conning structure, it makes no mention of the goal post removal which is the clincher, but it too would have had to be relocated or removed. Could you imagine a 40mm bofor or Pom Pom shell hitting the mast upright in the heat of engagement, disaster.

If I was to build Warra at the end of 44 I would want absolute confirmation on this before proceeding, if you make a mistake you have wasted your time and are shark bait for the never endless supply of critics/rivot counters.
The shot is devoid of the searchlight platform also, and here is a second shot from slightly different angle.
If anyone else has a full broadside shot of Warra after Nov 44 I would love to see it.

[Brett Morrow]

Thanks Dav for bring the service article to attention, as I had not noticed anything untoward before in the shots, but, something very interesting in the photo of Warramunga`s hose team cooling down USS Brooks hull, Jan 45.

This shot appears to have been taken just aft of the rear funnel as that looks like the large ventilator head, 2 of which straddle the aft funnel, If you look closely you can make out a 40mm bofors in the starboard gun tube, it certainly is not an oerlikon.
No Goalpost mast is visible in the shot and no searchlight or secondary conning structure is evident, no question of censor here.

It is looking like Vic Cassells book is correct in reference to removal of the equipment in question, and my attached photos have not been doctored.
My original question, where were the aerial cables attached after removal of the goal post mast?

[Perth_shipyard]

Goal post isn't here, but a small bar. You can see a connection for an aerial (cable) leading off this bar heading in the general direction of the main mast.


It's dated 1945 in japan I think unless another photo comes out of a closet somewhere, this will be the clearest yet. Would love to see the contact sheet this picture came from though!

To answer the other question regarding australian flags, there's only one Australian National Flag.

The important part here is that the national flag used since 1911 and current is the same and has a 7 point federation star. The big star under the Union Jack. And all stars of the southern cross are also 7 pointed stars apart from the smallest which is a 5 pointed star.

The Australian white ensign wasn't put into use until 1967 so you don't need to worry about it. Commissioned navy vessels of the RAN used the RN white ensign until this time from federation. The Australian red ensign is for use aboard merchant navy and private vessels registered in Australia. During ww2 both the British red ensign, Australian Red ensign and Australian Blue ensign where flown by the mercantile marine (this is far more complicated story than the white ensign)

The only other ensign is the light blue variant used by the air force known as the australian Air Force ensign. Any other flags are state or territory flags and the Aboriginal and Torres straight islander flags.

[Brett Morrow]

Thanks Perth, I have that photo in hi res, I had initially thought the bar to be part of the Pom Pom frame quite a while ago.
Perhaps that is a connection point? but it would possibly be in the way of the pom pom barrels when the gun was traversing?

Makes me wonder what the cables are on the port side with the spreader bars, makeshift clothes line, or makeshift aerial run?
There were 4 cable runs to the goal post originally, anyway the question is still open, cheers.

[Perth_shipyard]

I think you'd find the bar is separate from the Pom Pom itself. They're definitely connections for the cables and would make sense I think.

[dick]

Warramunga's 1945 aerial spreader just forward of her quad pom pom, the top and part of the side of which is visible in the photo of her at Japan in 1945 above, was shaped like this:

(Please excuse the crude drawing - it was like a capital A but with a horizontal top.)

[Brett Morrow]

Thanks Dick, where did you get the info?

[Brett Morrow]

Also forgot to ask, the shot appears to have one cable attached, maybe there are more unseen, do you know how many cables? thxs

[Perth_shipyard]

Theres four cables just like when she had the goal
Post fitted. Warramunga and Arunta in dry dock 1946. Warramunga is in her post war RN light grey colour with extra long black tip on the funnel.

[Brett Morrow]

Yep, checked my records, and scoped the A frame.
Did not think to check on photos after 45, I was concentrating on her immediate aerial arrangement after Nov 44 to the end of the Pacific war, while still carrying her tripod mast, not after refit with the new lattice structure.

Here is a cropped shot of Warra, wearing pennant I.44, an A.C. Green photo dated 1947.
Without a full shot of her from Nov 44 to refit it must be accepted that this was the aerial arrangement, cheers guys