Calling all Bismarck and Tirpitz fans

[Fliger747]

This is sidetracking the thread a bit but Just guessing that rudder commands were electrically sent from the various steering stations which would be I'd also guess selectable as master. In extremis I would also guess that rudder command could be sent to the steering station of stations via sound powered phone. Most likely one station , port of starboard would be master.

In the case of Bismarck a lack of fore site not being able to operate them independently. What about other US Battleships?

[chuck]

i believe bismarck had the ability to operate the rudders independently of each other, but they are normally couple together to enable each rudder mechanism to operate both rudders together. the germans appear to like this kind of redundancy.

When bismarck was hit in the rudder. the damage prevented the rudders from being uncouple from each other. evidence from the wreck suggest decoupling the rudders would have done no good as both rudders appears severely damaged by the torpedo and were inoperable.

[Iceman 29]

"26 May 1941, about 2100hrs:

The two hits amidships were of little concern, but the damage to the stern that had been struck by a torpedo had tragic consequences. While the propellers and their shafts remained intact, the steering gear was badly damaged. The rudders were blocked
in a position left 12 degrees. With a large hole in the stern, the steering gear compartment and all adjacent compartments were completely flooded. Divers were sent to make an attempt to free the rudders and restore either mechanical or manual steering. All their efforts failed.
Due to the stormy weather, the water inside the flooded compartments was moving violently, and it was out of the question to make any repairs from the outside of the hull. A suggestion was made to blow the jammed rudders away, but it was not taken up as such an action would risk damaging the propellers.

Unsuccessful efforts were also made to attach a static rudder-like surface amidships that would compensate for the 12-degree turn of the rudders. Steering with the battleship�s propellers also turned out to be impossible.

Bismarck was on an erratic course against the wind, heading in a more or less northwest direction, directly towards the enemy battleships."

27 may 1941:

"According to the survivors' debriefings, towards 2030 hours, 16 enemy aircraft were reported at high altitude above "Bismarck". It appeared that they had assembled above the clouds for an attack. The air raid alarm was sounded; however, the [air] defense did not go into action. A short time later, 35 aircraft dove though the clouds and flew toward "Bismarck" in a daring attack. The entire ship's defenses, including the heavy and intermediate artillery, went into action; it was said that 7 of the attacking enemy planes were shot down. During the attack, 2 strong shocks were felt in the ship that had been caused by 2 torpedo hits.
One torpedo had hit compartment II and had disabled the rudder machinery, while the second torpedo had hit compartment VIII or amidships. The hit in the rudder machinery robbed "Bismarck" of his steering capability, so that the ship circled and speed slowly dropped from 24 kn to 13 kn.

An attempt was made to seal the leak in compartment II with a futhering sail; however, these efforts failed due to the high seas. After some time, divers were able to rig a manual rudder to reestablish makeshift steering capability of "Bismarck". At the same time, the ship was brought up head-to-wind against the sea by reverse steering with the screws. A cruising speed of 24 kn (?) was apparently resumed after the reestablishment of steering capability. "Bismarck" had a list of almost 5�."











http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck_c ... llers.html







http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck_c ... eck_5.html

The remains of the starboard side rudder bend towards port. About 2/3 of the rudder is missing, most likely caused from when Bismarck hit and slided down the underwater mountain when it sunk. Below it, the center propeller can be seen.


Another view of the starboard rudder. Notice the damage on the propeller blade. It has still not been settled was caused this damage. There are several theories.


A view of the starboard side propeller.

[bigjimslade]

This is sidetracking the thread a bit but Just guessing that rudder commands were electrically sent from the various steering stations which would be I'd also guess selectable as master. In extremis I would also guess that rudder command could be sent to the steering station of stations via sound powered phone. Most likely one station , port of starboard would be master.

In the case of Bismarck a lack of fore site not being able to operate them independently. What about other US Battleships?

In the Iowas (similar in the other treaty battleships), the master ship's wheel is in the Central Station buried in the citadel. Central Station has a switchboard that can reroute command from itself to either the primary or secondary conning stations. Normally, this was routed to the secondary conning station.

The rudders could be operated manually in the steering compartments with orders transmitted by phone (as they would to Central Station.

The electric device used to transmit commands from the wheel to the rudder machinery is called a "Selsyn."

Would a U.S. battleship have survived the same kind of torpedo hit? Who knows?

In any event the armor protection and structure around the rudders was MUCH greater on U.S. battleships than Bismarck.

[Guest]

Hi, having difficulties in finding any reviews of the Trumpeter tirpitz? Not a lot on YouTube. Nor the internet, or am I missing something?

It's mentioned in this thread as being not accurate and possibly not worth buying.

Does anybody know of reviews, plenty on the Bismarck

[Ronald47]

Youtube (in German language):- https://youtu.be/q8UHNWK9Dko

Scalemates: https://www.scalemates.com/kits/trumpet ... p--1340672

[Bob the Stug]

Thanks Ronald, appreciated

I did find the scalemates review, however it does cover Tirpitz despite the title. Does not even have the plans to compare to Trumpeters Bismarck!

Searched a lot and cannot find a review in English.

[Ronald47]

Yes, nothing more to find indeed... strange but true. Maybe others do have tips?

[Bob the Stug]

Yes Ronald very odd, plenty of Bismarck stuff?

However bought the Trumpeter kit anyway. Nice and cheap on Amazon UK.

[Timmy C]

If by "Does not even have the plans to compare to Trumpeters Bismarck" you mean the instructions, Super Hobby has them scanned: https://www.super-hobby.com/products/Ge ... 88420.html

[Ronald47]

Yes, correct! Super Hobby is often the place to be with these things And most times they appear in the Google search.

Kit looks very good... I always find Trumpeter kits of good quality and the few I did had good fit and where a descent design as kit. So for this one I'm confident it will be of the same good quality. Just one way to find out.... is to build it!

[Bob the Stug]

Many thanks both, kit arrives tomorrow!

Is there a book or website where I can see / read about the differences between Tirpitz and Bismarck. I know about the torpedo tubes and cranes but read in this thread about the bridge as well? There maybe more!

[Ronald47]

Many thanks both, kit arrives tomorrow!

You're welcome Books; many options here, a straight good advice I cannot give here.

[Edoardo81]

Hi everybody, I write here for asking a thing.



As in the picture, I have noticed some holes in both sides of the lower part of the hull.

Does anyone know what they are?

Thanks

[EJFoeth]

Hydrophone array (Gruppen Horch Ger�t)

http://www.bismarck-class.dk/bismarck_c ... g/ghg.html

[Edoardo81]

Thanks!
So... I have to make about 120 holes!!!

[chuck]

those are not actual holes. they are flush mounted microphones. there is a slightly raised rim around each microphone. i think it is hard to depict the rim in the correct scale. I think the most realistic depiction on a 1/200 or 1/350 model would be just round dark gray dots on the hull. l Created a template by drilling microphone patterns as 0.4mm holes in a 0.4mm styrene sheet.

there are several additional acoustic panels on bismarck�s hull. there are 10 round panels on the bottom of the hull for acoustic depth sounders, there are a couple of single round panel on the hull sides near the group listening devices for acoustic torpedo approach warning receivers, and there are an array of 5 rectangular panels around the leading edge of the bulbous forefoot for active sonar transducers

[Edoardo81]

Thanks for the info!

[chuck]

does anyone know of photos of the Bismarck�s main guns being installed in the turret? I decided to build trumpeter 1/200 bismarck kit as a diarama to show her under construction, with guns being installed in the main turret, to take advantage of a separate turret kit that comes with the trumpeter kit. i like to know for example are the guns inserted through the embrasures? or is the sloping upper front plate removed so the gun is lowered directly into the the lower half of the embrasure. thanks.

[chuck]

Bismarck�s propeller guards at the stern appears to be a tripod sticking out the sides of the hull over the propellers, does anyone know if the propeller guard fold away when the ship is at sea? I find no photos of her at sea showing the propeller guard. although it is clearly visible in some photos of her in port.