Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Erik W]

I have some questions about CV-14 Ticonderoga as seen in January 1945. If this post by Dick J about Tico's deck modification is correct, viewtopic.php?f=46&t=4802&p=274942&hilit=Tico#p274942 it sounds like the Ticonderoga had the longer/standard length forward end of the Essex flight deck in Jan '45 without the forward cut outs for the Mk37 director and 40mm port quad mount. Is this correct? Am I correct in thinking that the 11' forward section of flight deck that was removed, when compared to the short hulled Essex ships, was put back in prior to Jan. 1945? Also, it appears to me, from the few photos I have seen, that the MK51 directors for the two bow 40mm quad mounts were also moved to the bow flight deck corners (like the other long hulled Essex carriers, not including the Hancock). Am I correct in assuming this?

Here are some photos:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021445.jpg
As built Ticonderoga, June 26 1944.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021446.jpg
Modified Tico with lengthened deck, cutouts removed and (I think) bow Mk51 directors moved to front corners of the flight deck, September 15 1944.

http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021403a.jpg
Better shot of front corners of the flight deck mounted Mk51 director location, January 21 1945.

Would a good way to model a 1/350 scale Ticonderoga as she appeared in Jan. 1945 then be to use the Trumpeter Ticonderoga kit with the forward flight deck section from either the Yorktown or Franklin kits?

Also, does anyone have any photos of the Ticonderoga that show the bow area when she was in action in late �44 to Jan. �45 (to confirm placement of the bow Mk51 directors)?

Any ideas or insight are much appreciated.

Thanks,
Erik

[Tracy White]

Conventional wisdom in the past was that when the early long hulls had their flight decks extended, both ends were done at once, but records for Tico don't bear this out. So, just to start from the beginning:
* Launched with a short flight deck
* Forward extended in/about July 1944 (Mk 51's moved to flight deck corners at this time, Mk 37 cut-out filled). Aft flight deck left short.
* Oct 1944 Pearl Harbor refit, no flight deck work done.
* Feb 1945 Puget Sound refit to repair kamikaze damage; aft flight deck extended at this time.

So yes, you would need to mix and match parts; you'll need the short flight deck aft with the two 20mm galleries hanging from it, and a regular deck section forward. You'll also need to drop the quad 40mm mount on the forward port open 5" gallery down and remove the notch in the flight deck.. possibly the aft one as well but I don't have my notes or documents to be sure.

[Erik W]

and remove the notch in the flight deck.. possibly the aft one as well but I don't have my notes or documents to be sure.

Thanks Tracy. I guess the only question still in my mind is if the aft, port 40mm notch would be there or not. I don't have my limited material with me, but hopefully I can find evidence that shows whether the rear notch was there or not (in Jan �45). I'm curious if the Trumpeter Ticonderoga has the lowered 40mm mounts then since the notches don't appear in the flight deck. . .

It's a bit of a stretch to use this photo taken Nov '44 to Jan '45. But it looks like the rear notch may have been removed.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/021408.jpg
I think the notch would be where the deck edge and white wake area intersect. Where's a clear overhead shot when you need one.

Erik

[Tracy White]

I've actually got the paperwork from Norfolk & Puget Sound ShipYards to back up the previous statements, but not with me.. .I'll look through it to see if it mentions the cut-outs at all... my notes don't mention.

My review seems to indicate they gave a new forward gallery with a lowered mount, so that part would be less of a concern at least:
http://www.modelwarships.com/reviews/sh ... eview.html

[Erik W]

I've actually got the paperwork from Norfolk & Puget Sound ShipYards to back up the previous statements, but not with me.. .I'll look through it to see if it mentions the cut-outs at all... my notes don't mention.

Tracy,

Thanks. I look forward to hearing if you find anything about the cut-outs or not.

Erik

[Tracy White]

Unfortunately all of my photos are from her 1945 Damage Report. Based on the below text, one might presume that the aft notch wasn't reworked, but a photo in Steve's Classic Warships' Tico book just after the kamikaze attack appears to show the corresponding quad 40mm mount at the same altitude as the 5" guns... I.E. lowered. Sorry I didn't have anything more definite.

[keithhufnagel]

Hello arizonabb39, I am sure you are aware that Wasp CV-18 also wore 33-10a (same as USS Yorktown CV-10) March 44' (near twin prior to Sept. 44') until June 45'. However the number of lattice (radio) masts (4), SC(on top mast radar platform) and, SK antenna (outboard of funnel) locations were quite different. Also the starboard 40mm gun locations are slightly different, plus various minor antennas etc. She seems to have retained only the single stern quad 40mm. Hope this helps. Bibliography : Camouflage 2 , The Floating Drydock, Fleet Carriers , publication copyright 1977. "Warships Data 5" USS Yorktown (CV-10), copyright 1990 Floating Drydock

[Erik W]

in Steve's Classic Warships' Tico book just after the kamikaze attack appears to show the corresponding quad 40mm mount at the same altitude as the 5" guns... I.E. lowered. Sorry I didn't have anything more definite.

Thanks for looking into that for me Tracy. I agree with you in regards to the photos in Steve Wiper's Warship Pictorial 22 Ticonderoga book. Comparing the photos on the top and bottom of page 16, which show the Tico in June 1944, with the main photo on page 27 taken on Jan 21, 1945, it definitely looks like the aft 40mm mount was lowered at that time. A photo from a slightly closer perspective, also taken on Jan 21st, 1945, can be seen on page 22 of the Osprey Publishing book US Navy Aircraft Carriers 1942-1945 by Mark Stille. I think, for me, these two photos show that indeed the aft port 40mm mount was lowered and the corresponding notch removed by Jan 1945.

Erik

[NigelR32]

Hi All,

This is my first posting on here, and i have a question. I hope you don't think me rude???

I'm desperately trying to find a picture of the well in the hangar deck floor with the elevator up. I would like to build my trumpeter Franklin with the Elevator up, or halfway up, and cannot find any reference at all..

I have built the well for the front elevator, thanks to reference from this site.

Regards

Nigel

[NigelR32]

Just following on from my prvious post.....

I've seen the pics on here from the movie, "Fighting lady",in fact, it was down to this very thread that I bought the film. I must say, it's brilliant!! I also bought "Kamikaze in colour", which is also pretty good.

Regards

Nigel

[Tracy White]

CV-16's well. This show's the stub elevator in the up position as well; it was used to allow aircraft movement when the main elevator was up.

The drop tank stowage was not as depicted for Franklin.

[NigelR32]

Thanks so much Tracy,

You always come up with the goods don't you???

I assume this pic is looking from Port to Starboard, and that those Hydraulic rams are located mid way across the elevator? I'm also assuming there's four of those "Legs", (The rectangular structure with holes ), in total??

Is the well deep enough for those "Legs", or did they go through the well foor?

Thanks also for the info on the drop tanks, and no, I'm not gonna argue that they're propeler blades!!!

Regards

Nigel

[Tracy White]

You always come up with the goods don't you???

Hardly! I just got lucky enough to live near where a lot of the WWII repair work was done so the records exist in my local branch of the national archives. There's still plnety of questions I can't answer.

I assume this pic is looking from Port to Starboard, and that those Hydraulic rams are located mid way across the elevator? I'm also assuming there's four of those "Legs", (The rectangular structure with holes ), in total??

Is the well deep enough for those "Legs", or did they go through the well foor?

The rams are centered, the structure you're talking about is a track; they're not centered, and there are only two. That's one reason why the structure is so large, to compensate for any torsion loads. The other two pieces I presume are either a "stop" system or additional tracks, or a combination thereof; I haven't managed to locate any plans or labeled photos.

With regards to the tepth of the well, it's actually fairly shallow; if you look closely you can see two sailors next to the hydraulic rams holding illumination lights for the camera.

Thanks also for the info on the drop tanks, and no, I'm not gonna argue that they're propeler blades!!!

[Hippy Ed]

Great pic Tracy!! Thanks for sharing it!!

[Erik W]

I have another Jan. 1945 Ticonderoga question. When Tico had the forward part of her deck lengthened, she had the gallery that ran the full width of the forward flight deck removed. This was the gallery that was just under the leading edge of the front part of the flight deck. From what I can tell this was replaced with two small galleries running width wise on the edges of the forward part of the flight deck, like on the short hulled Essex ships. See here:

http://www.maritimequest.com/warship_di ... _27_03.JPG
The Ticonderoga is the second ship in line, behind the langley.

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/imag ... 301354.jpg
Again, he Ticonderoga is the second ship, behind the langley.

Am I seeing this correctly? I don�t have any good close-up photos. Can anyone post a close-up photo of the bow area of the Tico as it appeared between Sept. 1944 and Jan. 1945?

Thanks,
Erik

[Tracy White]

Yes, you are correct; the catwalks were cut-down to provide clearance for the quad 40mms. I'm in the process of moving now and won't have time to look for at least a week.

[Yatch]

Thanks for the thought. I wasn't sure if that difference would LOOK weird at this scale. I bought a Chicago today, and yeah, they look about right.

[Kazec]

Hi, further to my previous enquiry on CV-37, I would like to further seek information on the details of the two gun platforms at the portside, as highlighted below:



Similar structures are found in CV-31, but not others as much as I know (correct me if I were wrong).



The Dragon kit only provides the platforms (part nos M7 & M8) which like hanging under the side walkway. But I note that the platforms are actually connected with the hull with supporting structures underneath the side walkway. i shall be grateful if someone could show how the supporting structures look like, Thanks in advance.

[photos re-uplaoded]

[Tracy White]

You pictures are showing up as "bandwidth exceeded."

[keithhufnagel]

Those two additional 40mm mounts were added to several ships during their 1944 refits. Lexington, Yorktown, and Intrepid got them , and yes they are a deck level lower than the catwalks and yes they brace into the hull. I have seen them incorrectly rendered so you were right to inquire. Check reference photos of these three ships (after the refits). I recall seeing many great photos of Lexington so you might start there, or maybe Tracy can pull one out of his archives and settle this inquiry once and for all. "The World Wonders"