The Ship Model Forum

I have quite good expierence with electric guitar strings.
They start form 0.28mm going up to 0,6 in very little steps in between.
They come very straingt. Also good for masts and railings....

Thank you for the comments and piping material suggestions. I�m good with the brass rod as I have diameters down to .006�. Btw, some time ago, I confirmed with Motoyuki-san that virtually all ship�s winches were powered by steam for domestically built Japanese merchants in the pre-war & wartime period. So, the proliferation of steam lines makes perfect sense.

The larger pipe to port is definitely the oil transfer line, used for refueling as well as transfers. In this particular case, I�ve decided to try using styrene rod because of all the transverse, interconnecting pipes used specifically for refueling. I�d prefer to avoid soldering all those connections unless I actually have to go that route. Also, there�s only one set of bends at one end of the pipe, and I find it easier to work a bend into a larger diameter styrene rod.

I used 0.30� rod for this section of piping. Again, it was a guesstimate based on available photography. I would not be surprised to learn that the pipe was even wider in diameter. Since the transverse sections overlay the smaller, longitudinal steam pipe to starboard, it was necessary to use larger styrene strip bits for supports. Again, photos do confirm the taller set of supports for this set of piping.

While there is some flex in the rod, there are more than enough glue attachment points to ensure a solid footing. In fact, the rod really doesn�t have to be absolutely straight as most of it sits under the catwalks and supports. On the other hand, alignment is critical for that very same reason so, I really can�t glue it down yet until I have the basic catwalk built to ensure clearances and final placement.

In the meantime, I�m still working out the best means of duplicating the twin, �U� shaped refueling ports/nozzles that attach to either end of the transverse pipes, as well as at the stern. There are seven such points on the ship.

Dan ,always a pleasure to read and see
cheers
Nicolas

After a full review of all my available accessories and some experimentation, I decided that the IJN �Y� depth charge throwers that come with the PitRoad E-7 & E-10 accessory sets would serve my purpose in fabricating the refueling pipe ends. Doing so required the elimination of the depth charges themselves, bending the rods into a U shape, shaving down a projection on one side of the thrower base, and cutting down the height of the base. It�s not a perfect representation, particularly because the cross-section of each arm is more oval than round but, it scales out nicely, and is fairly evocative of the overall set-up, at least to me. I toyed with adding some small PE hawser reel end pieces as a master valve wheel but, I was not convinced that the additional work was worth the final result. I suppose I could always add something later.

At this point, I�ve replace nearly all the kit piping save for some cross pipes, and the models are starting to really look like tankers. However, there is still more ancillary piping to add. A bit more research is needed for that.

That's some nice looking work.

Hi Dan,

Great work, starting to look like a tanker! Here is another set of pipes you shouldn't forget:


I'm assuming they were tank washing lines (no inert gas systems in service in those days). Back in those days I believe they were washing them with hot water. As you can see they are at more or less fixed intervals along the length of the ship, probably one or two sets for each tank.

The small deckhouse with the two funnels/ventillation ducts in which the manifold piping disapears was probably the pumproom.

Why, thank you, Neptune. I really appreciate that. No, I haven't forgotten about those, although I haven;t been sure what they were used for. Your explanation certainly makes sense. I've been working on several things, and was hoping to finish a couple more things before posting.

One thing I've discovered is that the starboard longitudinal pipe is not a steam pipe, but an exhaust flue pipe to vent fumes from the oil tanks. I also figured out that there is an additional set of longitudinal pipes on the port side, nestled in against the larger oil transfer pipe. That's one of the things I've just finished and still need to mount on both ships.

I'm also working on the unique boom winch for these ships. I'll explain & illustrate these points further, soon.

Really impressive work, Dan. I hope your bring them along to MosquitoCon so we can at least eye-ball them.

Thx, Martin. I'm using MosquitoCon as my newest motivation to get these things done already.

I forgot to mention that these new longitudinal pipes are the steampipes.

I've traced the main lines below in red. I won't be able to replicate all of it.

Kyokuto Maru is a little different in that unlike all the later sisters, her steam line aft climbs up the superstructure on the port side, to mirror the flue line on the starboard side. It doesn't wrap around on the main deck to starboard.

Note that the boom winch sitting at an angle in the foreground aboard Kyokuto Maru. This is one of the best views I have. You can see a side view in the photo above it, sitting immediately to the left of the mainmast. And two more in the first photo, to the right of the foremast. One version has extended shafts for the drum heads.

Thank you Dan for showing your boom winches in detail. They look very well done indeed!





Bob Pink.

Very neat work Dan I must say those decks were pretty busy with equipment all over it but you are making it happen. Dan have you heard of Lars again? It's been a long time since he posted something I wonder if he is doing alright http://www.aeronautic.dk/Warships%201-700.htm



Jose

Wouldn't call it flue (since flue gas is generally used a term to define Inert Gas systems based on exhaust gas from the ship's engine on modern oil tankers), but I do suppose you're right. You can see the pressure regulating devices (currently called Pressure-Vacuum valves or in short PV valves) in the lower left corner of the picture I showed the washing lines on. Close to the most left washing line little more aft and closer to the "flue" line, you can see one closer-by and one slightly more aft a little further away from the pipe.
Currently such devices are connected to the inert gas line so that the gas going out of the tank while loading or during voyage, goes into an inert atmosphere and blows out through a vent mast, or, when discharging, inert gas is sucked in to avoid a vaccuum in the tank. Not sure how they did that in those early days, I'd assume they just sucked in air, not sure whether they did that through the same device/pipe or whether they had something seperate for that. The exhaust are probably the devices we're looking at, to the line you designated. I do wonder where that line ends. Must end up in some kind of a vent mast or kingpost. Anyway nice find!

Great to see these awesomely tiny winches. I do recommend to put a limit at size of objects you'll illustrate to the model. When you start digging into such tankers you end up with more and more detail and a very long building time, or you get an inconsistent level of detailing, showing certain tiny details but forgetting/skipping objects that are perhaps same size or even bigger. One of the reasons I consistently avoid showing valves and fire lines etc. on 1/700 ships. The same I would do for example with the steam lines on this ship. These lines probably branch off a lot more than only to the winches and when the wire you use is only slightly off scale it might give an awkward look. That's of course just my opinion. This has become quite the scratchbuild by now

I completely agree that there has to be a limit in 1/700. It's not so much that I've gotten carried away as there has been some serious miscalculations on my part as to how much scratch-building and correction would be required for these tankers. I certainly did not expect the anchor windlass to take as long as it did to fabricate. As a result, I choose to create only one boom winch and am having those cast as well to speed things along, given that each ship takes 8 or 9 winches.

I've always planned to add the washer lines. Much simpler to build, though working with the smallest styrene rod possible at 0.01" width requires some concentration. Again, each ship gets (as far as I can tell) 9 sets of two lines paired together. After reviewing photos, I've chosen to depict them with each end splayed out, as opposed to wrapping together in one direction or another. Each set is 9.5mm long.

After some additional study, I�ve come to believe that the port longitudinal pipe is also a flue pipe for exhausting fumes from the oil tanks. Why else be connected to the starboard flue pipe at various points? I�ve also come to believe that the steam pipes are carried either under or alongside the catwalk walkway itself. Aside from the lines running back toward the stern, there is no clear reference material on this. When the time comes to put down the winches, I�ll run some individual lines from the winches into the catwalk area.

At this point, nothing more can really happen with the main deck until the winches are cast and ready to install. In the meantime, I�ll probably start working again on the aft superstructures.

The first photo below shows just the addition of the port flue pipe. Note how Kyokuto Maru�s (top) is routed straight back to the bulkhead, where it will pass through and continue back over the port side of the aft superstructure (eventually). That of Kenyo Maru (bottom) bends around at the base of the bulkhead and over to the starboard side. I don�t know exactly why, but these seems to be the pattern for all the later sisters. There's even a photo of Shinkoku Maru's underwater at Truk. (Sorry, can't make that one any larger).

The second photo shows the addition of the deck washer hoses.

They look great Dan!

I am distressed to realize that it has now been more than one year since I started this W-I-P. So much work behind the scenes, and such glacial progress to show for it, life issues notwithstanding. I�m not sure I would have scoped out such a project knowing what I know now about what it takes to make this kit accurate.

After finishing with the deck piping, I chose to return to the aft end in order to attach davits, railings and to prep for painting back there. Many large bits and assemblies will have to be added after the main painting phase. Kyokuto and Toa Maru sported typical, large, curved head boat davits for four boat positions on the aft boat deck. The later sisters utilized only two sets of these type davits plus a new, larger but simplified type davit that I will cover later on with Kenyo Maru. Wartime arrangements for Kyokuto Maru dispensed with the forward pair of davits in lieu of other arrangements and equipment.

The kit supplied PE davit is surprisingly correct in shape, but just a bit too thick and flat sided instead of round in cross-section. I used 0.01� brass rod rounded to shape. I then drilled out and attached small styrene strip bits for mounting brackets. After gluing the davits in place, boat pulleys from Rainbow were added. Merchant type three bar railings from Tom�s were set in place along the perimeter of the main and upper decks. I filled any gaps between the railing base and the deck with CA, lightly spraying the railings as needed to double-check the work.

And here I am wondering if it'd be too much, and too delicate, work to scratch boat davits in 1/350th scale.

Fantastic, as always.

HI Dan

very nice work on your davits ,the appearance is very realistic !!well done
best regards
Nicolas

Dan -

Looking good. Did you do anything special to get the curvature of the davits all about equal (like bending it around a drill bit or something similar)?

Dave K

Your dedication is awesome. Given the challenges, I might have given up already:)