The Ship Model Forum

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:59 am**

There is also Vallejo Model Air 71.023 'hemp', which is quite useful in this context. I would start with something like that, let a very dilute wash of burnt umbra run into the depression and finally dry-brush with various lighter shades.

Posted: **Tue Feb 15, 2022 7:32 am**

I'll make a note for my next order!

I used 76.517 Dark Grey to wash also.

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2022 12:38 am**

Teak does weather gray if it is not maintained well. But on naval vessels, with lots of crew without much to do when not in combat it was traditional to holystone the decks and/or clean them with sand and bleach (oxalic acid).

I was on three ships with teak decks when in the US Navy and they all looked the color of the deck on the sail boat in your pictures - light tan/brown. They looked almost white in bright equatorial sunlight.

Phil

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2022 5:37 pm**

Indeed Phil.

The color change when the teck is wet also.

A few details added, notably the hawsers and line.

I still have the hull outlets to drill, the lifebuoys, and hawser drums to install, detail the lifeboat a bit.

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2022 11:29 pm**

Are we still looking at the 1:350 model, or is this the larger scale version? It is looking very good!

Phil

Posted: **Thu Feb 17, 2022 12:42 am**

This is the 1:100 version, 300 mm long.

Posted: **Thu Feb 17, 2022 6:56 pm**

Man! I wish I could say that I made this.

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 4:44 pm**

This project has been completed now.

You can see the final touches here:

viewtopic.php?f=75&t=349477

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:33 pm**

Pascal, a creditable effort even though you were denied the manual/tactile pleasures of micro machining with mill and lathe. Very much catches the feel of these WWII era tugs, I served on a couple of them. They were almost always looked down upon, literally, low to the water, even from the dock. Memories from over half a century ago are sometimes in error, but I don't remember any rust or other staining anywhere on superstructure or hull. The crews took a lot of pride in their little charges and they were petty shipshape, even with a lot of white cord fancywork on rails etc. Perhaps being resident in a shipyard in more or less "peacetime" (Remember that?) allowed for extra attentive upkeep.

Very creditable indeed! Tom

Posted: **Mon Mar 07, 2022 6:37 pm**

Pascal:

One final question, tell me about the making of the faked down towing hawser?

Cheers: Tom

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:50 am**

Memories from over half a century ago are sometimes in error, but I don't remember any rust or other staining anywhere on superstructure or hull. The crews took a lot of pride in their little charges and they were petty shipshape, even with a lot of white cord fancywork on rails etc. Perhaps being resident in a shipyard in more or less "peacetime" (Remember that?) allowed for extra attentive upkeep.

Very creditable indeed! Tom

For the ageing, I forced the dose a little, because I think that in normal times, these tugs were well maintained in terms of paint, although if you look at the picture of Life above, it is not so obvious when you look at it in detail.

So I forced the point because of the date. This ship just went to put out fires during the attack and afterwards to pump out flooded compartments, all this in the atmosphere of soot laden smoke from the fires and sea water with a good layer of heavy fuel oil on the surface because of the stale bunkers of the ships that were hit severely.

I could have even added a black oil border at the waterline, but I didn't.
I limited the aging on the superstructure, less solicited and easier to maintain for the crews in general.

I also liked it clean in its more "traditional" version of the model.

We had to make a choice. The current trend is towards this style, closer to reality. It suits me well.

Pascal:

One final question, tell me about the making of the faked down towing hawser?

Cheers: Tom

I used 3 differents size of Occre rope, 0,8 , 0,5, 0,15.

https://www.miniplanes.fr/images/thumbn ... -17034.png

For hawsers and towsers, I used this method with Occre's ropes, it works very well.

I burned the strings with a lighter to remove all the little unsightly wires.

https://navi-modelisme-com.translate.go ... r_pto=wapp

It is regrettable that Occre makes its strings in S (not on the left) instead of making them in Z (not on the right) as they should be.

For almost all strings, it's always Z and S for steel strings in real life.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:59 am**

Interesting:

https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/ ... t-438.html

ABSTRACT

There seems to be much confusion amongst model-makers over the ways in which rope was laid for various functions in a ship. The three general ways (hawser-laid, shroud-laid and cable-laid) are clear in their definitions and uses, but the confusion seems to arise when modellers use the wrong lay of the rope for its different uses.

Thus there have been many who have claimed that shrouds of 17th, 18th and mid 19th century ships are usually made with left handed plain rope. That is simply not correct. Only cable-laid rope is left-hand laid. It is true that cable-laid ropes were sometimes used as shrouds on large warships, but this was the exception. Shrouds usually used (especially on merchant shipping) were shroud-laid: that being four strands with a central line or heart, laid to the right.

I have seen many contemporary and actual Models, even from World Champions, with left-handed running rigging, and sometimes a mix of left- and right-handed running rigging. This made me wonder why this should be, as it seems at the least illogical.

There have also been many discussions about breeching rope on canons and/or carronades as to whether they were cable-laid or left-handed hawser-laid.

The bottom line is that there are a lot of contradictory statements that are basically never backed up with sources. Some of the wrong things have simply taken root as �correct�.

This article tries to clear the air about the different uses of rope and show that Hawser-Laid Rope, used for all the running rigging were and is always right-handed, Z-Laid Rope.

It has to be acknowledged that the wide-spread use of left-handed running rigging or left-handed shrouds is historically wrong, unless made as cables or cablets.

PDF file to download: https://forum.dubz-modelling-world.com/ ... php?aid=38

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:02 am**

Pascal:

Thank you for the explanation, modeling is an art form and the artist-constructor is allowed interpretation within the Genre. It is a little like commenting that Picaso used the wrong colors. You comments and insight are appreciated. In ship modeling we are generally attempting to recreate in miniature a reasonable semblance of an original, or in some cases a might have been. Given WWII was generally fought in Black and White (a popular modeling era) I suppose we could just decorate our ships in shades of black and white and follow most of the evidence. My 96 year old father does remember there being color in the era, though first hand witnesses tend to be unreliable. I remember there being colors in the early 1950's but I can't prove it...

Great work and thank you for the explanation about ropes and rigging!

Tom

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:39 am**

Well, yes, there has been quite a discussion about Dirk's research on left-handed hawser-laid rope in our German fora ...

It seems that even museums now prefer polyester thread over the traditional linnen one for rope-making. A brand commonly used on both sides of the Atlantic is G�termann's Mara that is available in many suitable colours and shades.

As it is available only down to a certain size, many people, including myself are using polyester fly-tying threads as starting material for rope-making. My preferred brand is the Danish Veevus two-ply that is available down to size 16/2 in suitable colours.

Polyester has the advantage of being smooth, without fuss and can be tempered to take out the springiness.

Here is my rope-walk for making sub-millimetre ropes, constructed from an inherited 1 metre long optical bench:

https://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/m ... ewalk.html

With a rope-walk you can also unravel commercial threads/rope and give the correct lay.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:29 pm**

Yes I remember you mentioning the ropewalk previously! I have been using the Guttman thread as it is smooth and available in many colors n my local thread shop. There are some colors available that are used for sports clothing that have a small amount of stretch which has some advantage for some rigging applications. It is possible that stretch elements may not have the best longevity? In aviation mechanics we have a tool that twists safety wire to secure fasteners from loosening via drilled bolt heads.

Education never ceases!

Tom

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 12:39 pm**

I would avoid any elastic material as it is likely to become brittle with time - I know it is attractive, because it forgives you unequal tensioning, but it is also not so realistic, as all lines will follow a catena due their own weight.

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 1:22 pm**

Gentlemen:

Not getting into the discussion re. left/right/etc. laid cables, but lines (shrouds to be exact) were SERVED with small stuff to prevent chaffing from the contact with sails. The leading shroud on each set of lines was covered with a canvas wrap and then small stuff was applied (served) over the canvas. Once this had been completed, the resulting wrapped cable was then coated with tar to waterproof it and provide an extra layer of protection. Back in the early 2000s (doesn't THAT sound quaint???

) I developed a serving machine to do just that for making served lines for my 1:48 U. S. Sloop of War PEACOCK -

: 2nd Version Serving Machine

The serving small stuff was wrapped either left hand twist or right hand twist depending on the side of the ship that was being rigged. I believe back then I was using Bluejacket black cotton line and a thin dia. cotton line for the small stuff. I didn't see the need to actually wrap the inner cable with "canvas", but simply coated the completed served line with flat black paint.
About the best photo I have of this completed "served" line is this:

If you notice the leading shroud is somewhat thicker than the ones behind, thus illustrating the aforementioned process.

Torpedo the dams!!! Full Speed to the Head!!!

Hank

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:46 pm**

Nice work Hank!

Posted: **Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:12 pm**

Thanks, Tom!!! That was also a 6-year project!!!!

Pascal - sorry, not trying to steal your thread

Hank

Posted: **Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:16 am**

Curiosity prompted me to reference my dad's 1943 "Blue Jacket's Manual" (BJM) which has a good dissertation on ropes and lines at the start of the lengthy section on deck seamanship. Good discussion on how the fibers are made into rope and how this affects their strength with handling and use. For instance the common Manila does not un stretch after a strain is applied, reducing in diameter and increasing in length. Also kinking can reduce the strength by up to 30%. Tar and hemp, roots back to the age of sail, and before! Even describes a new "golden" Manila rope aging to a light grey.

When I began climbing in the early 60's, we still used manila ropes, with all the disadvantages except availability and cost. As we began doing more technical adventures, we eventually adopted the European "Perlon" which was synthetic with parallel strands and a woven sheath. It's elasticity was helpful in absorbing the shock of arresting a leader fall.

Cheers: Tom

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Re: TugBoat USS Nokomis (YT-142) Woban Class 1:350 & 1:100 -

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Re: TugBoat USS Nokomis (YT-142) Woban Class 1:350 & 1:100 -

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