Calling all Japanese pre-war/wartime Merchant Marine fans

[Quincy]

Hi Motoyuki san:

Youtube would be great. We could see your builds live in the flesh, so to speak.





Bob Pink.

[DougKn]

Hi!
Has anyone here had experience with the book "Voyage of a Century, photo collection of NYK ships"(1985)? I had bought the "Japanese Merchant Ships at War", but thought that I was not as impressed with the quality of photography (except the leading pages) as I was with Motoyuki san's "Visual Guide of Japanese Wartime Merchant Marine". It is a pricey book, and I was wondering if experiences here is it worth it?
Regards,
Doug K

[DougKn]

Well, I went ahead and ordered a copy. I will let you guys know what I think when it comes in

[Graham Boak]

I have a question about Hokoku Maru, and the other AMCs. Motoyuki san's plans show a 5th cargo hatch, counting from the front, but plans and model both show it covered by a higher deck, although the jibs are retained for loading. Should there be a hatch on this deck for access to the hold? Or should the jibs be removed?

It occurs to me that this deck could be used for storing a small floatplane, using the jibs to raise and lower it. Did these AMCs ever carry such an aircraft?

[Gilbert]

I have a question about Hokoku Maru, and the other AMCs. Motoyuki san's plans show a 5th cargo hatch, counting from the front, but plans and model both show it covered by a higher deck, although the jibs are retained for loading. Should there be a hatch on this deck for access to the hold? Or should the jibs be removed?

It occurs to me that this deck could be used for storing a small floatplane, using the jibs to raise and lower it. Did these AMCs ever carry such an aircraft?

Hello Graham,
I have checked in my library and in "Warships of the IJN 1869-1945, by H.Jentschura, D.Jung and P.Mickel, p.235, it is written Aikoku, Gokoku and Hokoku Marus carried two aircrafts. However, I did not find any evidence about these aircraft being used before the surviving ships' (Gokoku and Aikoku) reclassification as transports in 1943. The drawings show no catapult, therefore, aircrafts would have been used and recovered at sea level.
About the 5th hatch you mentioned, I have noticed on Motoyuki San's drawing 6 hatches (Hokoku Maru) and their number varied in the three models he built.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Graham Boak]

Annoyingly, I have JJM but had missed the reference to aircraft. There's no such reference in Watts&Gordon.

So it makes sense that this platform is for storage of these aircraft, with the hold below converted for their stores and a small workshop, perhaps. The existence or otherwise of a hatch remains a mystery.

Presumably the type of aircraft used was the "Dave". I may raise this point in j.aircraft.com.

[DougKn]

Graham and Gilbert
The aircraft carried by Hokoku and Aikoku Marus were Kawanishi E7k2 (Alf), and they did have somewhat of a battle record. One from Aikoku discovered the freighter Malama near the Cook and Society Islands on December 31, 1941. She circled the ship and set off but was lost. On the 2nd January 42, another from Aikoku returned, straffed, caused her crew to abandon ship, then came back later and bombed Malama, causing her to be lost.

On 17th December 42, the Alfs were landed while Aikoku and Gokoku were further utilized as transports.

Per the hatches, I did notice on pictures of Motoyuki san's models that Aikoku and Hokoku had five hatches (somewhat) exposed, while Gokoku had only three showing. Maybe it was because Gokoku was never completed in commercial service, but went straight to IJN commision while building. The other two had served on a commercial route. She would therefore not need these commercial assets for her supposed role as an AMC as much.

[Gilbert]

Thanks for the info Doug. I have been on J-Aircraft forum and found there an interesting response to Graham from a member named Luke :
Hi Graham,
aircraft belonging to 24 Sentai (AIKOKU, H?KOKU, KIYOZUMI MARUs) were Kawanishi Type 94 reconnaissance floatplanes (two each) with the following tail markings:

AIKOKU MARU: ZI
H?KOKU MARU: ZII
KIYOZUMI MARU: ZIII

GOKOKU MARU: never carried floatplanes having been completed without her 2nd and 3rd kingpost masts.

Luke

This might explain why Gokoku Maru had less hatches than the other AMC

Cheers

Gilbert

[Motoyuki Iwashige]

Hello everyone,

Hokoku maru and Gokoku maru is one of first group I have built. The latter had to be built with both of minimum information and experience.
Strangely I have never met document material describing aircraft alteration, but Hokoku maru and Aikoku maru was clearly shipped E13A seaplane after Midway. As catalog data they are to be shipped one regular and one spare.
I guess that the additional deck plating over 5th hatch is, at least partly removable to accommodate supply and probably divided spare plane through the hatch as planned to auxiliary seaplane transport.

Doug san,
I saw the book at bookstore in Kobe a week ago. Many of large photos are contained and you will be satisfied with it. I did not purchase because the greater part is spent to post-war era .

Motoyuki Iwashige

[Graham Boak]

Luke G.A.Ruffato has added the following on the Navy aircraft message board: http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?board=3.0

"Checking the pictures taken at Singapore in July 1942 it we can assume that the aircraft (both Kawanishi type 94s or Aichi Type 0s) were stowed in No.4 Hold and they were assembled and prepared for operations atop the ex No.5 Hold (hatches had been removed and then sealed; see the just released book written by Motoyuki Iwashige). I think that No. 5 hold and the new level of the aft deck accomodated aircraft workshops and the torpedo maintenance section (the torpedo launchers were abreast No. 5 Hold and this fitting seems reasonable placed)."

The problem with answers is that they raise more questions! If the aircraft are brought out of the No.4 hold, there is no need for any opening above No.5. It might indeed have been more awkward to manipulate large assemblies through such a hatch, in the middle of the working area. Has anyone else seen these Singapore photos and can agree with Luke's assumption here? Presumably there was some kind of cradle for supporting an assembled aircraft at rest, but this is more for curiosity than the needs of 1/700 modelling!

It was normal for the Jake to replace the Alf, though this does raise a question about the camouflage and when it was carried. Did the ship always have this camouflage, or was it only appropriate for a time when one type was carried but not the other? I intend modelling the ship in this camouflage and have spare Jakes and Alfs to choose from.

A request on the Ships and Navy message board has drawn no response to date, but is readers here are not familiar with it, it does have other postings dealing with merchantmen.

http://www.j-aircraft.org/smf/index.php?www;board=5

[Gilbert]

It was normal for the Jake to replace the Alf, though this does raise a question about the camouflage and when it was carried. Did the ship always have this camouflage, or was it only appropriate for a time when one type was carried but not the other? I intend modelling the ship in this camouflage and have spare Jakes and Alfs to choose from.

Well, camouflage on ships might change depending on the period. On Motoyuki's San website, as an example, you can notice some changes for Aikoku Maru. He has built his kit in neutral grey overall as in December 1942 where it can reasonably be assumed that she carried E13A1. For Hokoku Maru, he built it with a camo scheme which matches the picture, as in November 1942, again probably with E13A1. However, due to the scarcity of photos during wartime, it is difficult to say where the camo schemes changes, if any, occurred.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Gilbert]

Finally, I know better about Hokoku and Aikoku Marus camouflage timeframe and aircraft complement in September 1942. The two photos in the book "Japanese Merchant Ships at War", by Hisachi Noma show both ships wearing the same camouflage as the ones depicted on Motoyuki San's website.
The comments are "The camouflaged armed merchant cruiser Hokoku Maru at Seletar Naval Port, Singapore on 18th Sept. 1942. Note a dummy funnel, erected abaft the funnel". You can see without any doubt two E13A1 aboard, one just in front of third derrick, the other in between third and fourth derrick. Both aircrafts colours look dark, they are more than likely camouflaged in dark green.
Other comments are "Armed merchant cruiser Aikoku Maru at Seletar Naval port, Singapore on 18th Sept.1942. Note her camouflage is different from Hokoku Maru's". Again, two E13A1 appear onboard, in the same position as Hokoku Maru's floatplanes, and wearing the same colour scheme.

Cheers

Gilbert

[Quincy]

If the Aikoku Maru kit was ever to be released in plastic, then I would get two. On for the Aikoku, and one to convert to Gokoku Maru. I already built Hokoku Maru and it was a great kit. I did mine up in her splinter camo scheme with Jakes aboard.


Bob Pink.

[DougKn]

All
For a good account on Aikoku/Gokoku/Hokoku sailings, this website has good information : http://www.combinedfleet.com/Tokusetsu%20Junyokan!.htm. There are also accounts for other AMC's. There are other TROMS (Tabulated Records of Movement) on that site for other auxilliaries and warships of the IJN

[Quincy]

At the moment I am in the process of building the Nitta Maru and Brazil Marus. I am using the Aoshima Nitta Maru and Fujimi Brazil Maru kits . The Fujimi kit is going together so far without any minor difficulties, the Nitta maru kit could really use a retooling. My Nitta Maru wiil be as an armed troop transport before her conversion to the Chuyo. I am using Motoyuki sans model as a reference.



Bob- I gotta go mow the pasture- Pink.

[Graham Boak]

I'd forgotten about the Brasil Maru kit - it looks as though it would make a better starting point for the Hokoku Maru than the Yawata Maru I'm using. Not so much from the point of view of the hull (which I've completed anyway) as from the superstructure and the pattern of openings along the side. That is presenting me with problems - I mean of course modelling challenges - as I try to use a maximum of the kit deck parts.

[Quincy]

It looks like the Nitta Maru will require alot of putty/styrene to finish. To many gaps to fill in too many places. Other than that, I am having a good time with it.




Bob Pink.

[DougKn]

Hello all
As promised I will report on "Voyage of a Century, Photo Collection of NYK Ships" just received. As Motoyuki San observed, pages 15 to 99 deal with pre-war ships, pages 101-280 with post-war, followed by a brief spec list of 740 ships served under the NYK flag. Most of the ships shown in 1/3 page size photos of good quality, with some interior shots of the liners.
The Pre-war ships are all B&W or sepia, postwar has many colour photos. Each ship listed has a 2-5 paragraph story written in English on her, plus specifications.

The book does fill in a lot of information on NYK ships making it a companion to "The story of Mitsui and OSK liners lost during the Pacific War". It would be valuable especially to anyone interested in postwar ships to 1985 too. There were several other copies available from Amazon and Abe books if anyone is interested. It is a bit pricey, I feel it is a nice addition to my library, but my book buying must be reduced for a bit.

Regards,

[Gilbert]

Thanks for the book review

Gilbert

[Graham Boak]

Is there a source of the 140mm guns with gunshields as used on the AMCs, or will I have to raid four tanker kits? One of the Skywave sets?