Calling all USS Pennsylvania BB-38 fans

[Cliffy B]

Nice set of shots of BB-39 from construction to Pearl.

http://www.warbirdinformationexchange.o ... =3&t=54661

[chuck]

Has anyone thought about converting trumpeter 1941 Arizona to a 1944 Pennsylvania?

[chuck]

Yes, picked up an 1/200 Arizona from hlj for cheap, so I am considering converting it to late war Pennsylvania.

[chuck]

Not yet,I am working on it. I am just trying to get some feedback from anyone who has experience doing this.

[pbudzik]

As far as fit, it went together quite well. I had a lot of fun. I know there has been a lot written about accuracy, so a little search should help out.

Paul

[Channell]

Yes, picked up an 1/200 Arizona from hlj for cheap, so I am considering converting it to late war Pennsylvania.

It's a future project for me for sure... The Pennsylvania is one of my all-time favorites.

I've had another Arizona kit in my stash for a couple years and am probably not going to pursue my waterlined Missouri, freeing up tons of parts that would be very useful on a final refit version of the Pennsylvania. I don't plan on doing it until after I finish my Iowa/Bismarck though...so it's gonna be a while for me.

[Mosey Dave]

I think Mike Ashey did a two-part series on converting the 1/426 Arizona to a late-war Pennsylvania a decade or so ago in FSM. Don't know if it's still available.

Now converting a 1/200 Arizona to an early-1942 Pennsylvania (as in Mare Island photos) would be more do-able but still a worthwhile project, just in defining the differences (angles of tripods, superstructure changes, etc.).

[MartinJQuinn]

I think Mike Ashey did a two-part series on converting the 1/426 Arizona to a late-war Pennsylvania a decade or so ago in FSM. Don't know if it's still available.

It's available by digital download, I believe. And I think he converted the 1/350 Banner kit, not the old Revell kit.

[Mosey Dave]

You're right about that it - it was the 1/350. Oopsie on my part.

[Mgunns]

Okay:

Having almost finished my 1/200 Arizona, I am now thinking of doing another but as the Pennsylvania in 1/200. With the Shapeways bridge conversion kits available, the hard part is done. Still, a lot of differences to contend with. Has anyone popped for any of the shapeways conversion bridges for the Arizona in any scale? If so, thoughts?

[BB62vet]

I've just read through this very informative CASF PENNSY forum and earlier this evening posted a question or two regarding converting a 1:200 Trumpy ARIZONA to a 1941 pre-Pearl PENNSY. If anyone has any preferences regarding aftermarket parts, please reply to that post.

Thanks,

[Mgunns]

Mgunns, what time period are you going to do your Pennsylvania as I'm doing a 1/426 scale of her for the end of the war so can see the difference between the 2 ships?

Hi DavidP: I plan on doing it as it was at Pearl during or previous to the attack. Due to the Artwox deck being geeard to the Arizona with the splinter shields, and not being handy at scratch building, I plan on doing it pre Pearl Harbor with the Shapeways superstructure, which I have yet to buy.

[Mgunns]

I've just read through this very informative CASF PENNSY forum and earlier this evening posted a question or two regarding converting a 1:200 Trumpy ARIZONA to a 1941 pre-Pearl PENNSY. If anyone has any preferences regarding aftermarket parts, please reply to that post.

Thanks,

Hi Hank:

I think the Shapeways superstructure will give the modeler a starting point. In reviewing the posts and photos of Pennsylvania there are a lot of differences, the least of which are the tripod masts. The Pennsylvania's are quite different From AZ and the attachment of the fighting tops are different from AZ, so that in itself poses a problem for the modeler using the 1/200 Trumpeter kit as a basis for the 1/200 Pennsy. It can be done, but; it all depends on how far the modeler wants to go to create the Pennsy out of the AZ.

[BB62vet]

Mark,

I'm beginning to get the sense of the differences and your reply underscores what was brought up in an earlier exchange of posts in this forum. Having created the NJ masts entirely from scratch (Brass, various PE left overs, styrene, etc.) I don't think the tri-pods will pose that much of an actual fabrication problem. As mentioned by others, finding any detailed plans of PENNSY might be a problem at this point in time, but one never knows. I guess having on hand nice clear photos of the bridge/mast areas of PENNSY to compare with similar 'ZONA photos would be a good starting point.

Along these lines, has anyone tried finding any BB-38 specific plans at NARA? This question is probably lame in regards to Tracy White and his usual high level research - I'll need to spend some online time reading thru his research, etc. Having not tackled any older steel navy ships prior to this, I'm wondering about any info that might help and along those lines, I have the complete ORIGINAL 1970s series of Time-Life Books - World War II and will see if there are any photos that might be relevant. That, in addition to a multitude of other hard bound books regarding U.S.N. ships etc.

Thanks for the very helpful input,

Hank

[Tracy White]

Well, myself and a few others of the research mob were on the 5th floor at NARA going through the last few hours of frantic scanning of images we had pulled. I had hoped to have time on this trip to look at some microfilm, but came across too much good 1941-3 camouflage documentation and 80-G photos. Hopefully on our spring trip?

The third floor is the cartographic division and has 95% of the plans at NARA (there are random ones in correspondence). There is a set of microfilm for "BB-38 Class" that is 36 rolls "long" If these are similar to the rolls of film I went through when we were trying to get Dragon to do a CV-6, it covers essentially "as built" to the last major refit. However, there is no index roll, so one is left to either guess and start with a random roll or start at the beginning and go to the end. Hawse pipes didn't change that much over time so one would start at the beginning for that detail, but where would any post Pearl-Harbor details be?

Then, you have the quality of the plans to deal with. Microfilm plans are photographs of the original linen plans - some times there is distortion from stretching plus lens distortion, and long plans were "cut up" int sections so that they would be in a form factor that film could handle. Sometimes they're crisp, other times whole sections are unreadable and unusable. We're in a bit of a transitional phase as well, they've been promising us microfilm readers for a couple of years now that would be able to take snap shots to USB, but not until last month (we found out on this trip) have they begun to show up. However, there are two of them - on the fourth floor, which is film, and we can't take microfilm between floors at this point. One main point these things were desirable has also been negated - it is $.45 per scan to USB to use them as opposed to free, as the ones in the downtown DC NARA facility are. Print copies were $.60 per sheet the last time I printed plans, so it's still cheaper, but not without cost.

I'm not saying it's not worth it, just that it is expensive, tedious work. At roughly a grand per trip, time for these plans is in a "as other projects come to work stoppage" category.

[BB62vet]

Tracy,

I, for one, certainly appreciate your last post, as it rings home to me the fortunes/misfortunes of having to deal with an erstwhile medium of documentation. And yet, a very useful source of storing drawings in a small space.

In the mid '80s and then later in the mid '90's I worked at a NC-based textile corporation's main engineering dept. and part of that CAD drafting position was researching various information from their vast microfisch depository in the basement of the bldg. The old linen and later mylar drawings were stored on microfilm cards, usually an IBM data card with the microfilm mounted in the card. It was inserted into the reader and you could look thru probably 2-3 dozen drawings on each card. The printer gave you an 18x24 sized sheet, black & white, and not to scale. But, keeping in mind that many of the older textile plants we were working on for renovations, etc. dated back to the late 1890's and those drawings all were professionally done, by standard, and completely dimensioned. While that isn't the preferred method of ensuring that sizes were correct, it was better than nothing. I can't recall ever finding errors when visiting the plant itself for an on-site visit. From this info we could then create up to date CAD files and proceed with the project at hand. Yes, a long and lengthy research project to begin with, because as you state, which of the drawings on the card are the ones you need?

I would love to spend some time at NARA just to satisfy myself that the drawings pertaining to NEW JERSEY, for example, are still intact - and then to find the info I really need even now. I also am no novice when it comes to "long" drawings - sometimes 10' in length. By the old gov't standards many vellum drawings that were done by defense contractors started out as a roll on the one side of the drafting table and pulled across and rolled up on the other until the drawing was complete (ink on vellum). I saw quite a bit of this on the Safeguard Missile System project at Western Electric in the early '70s. These were mainly elec. logic schematics that could give one a headache trying to discipher. They were then sent to the print shop and reduced to a multi-folded 11x17 sized sheet for insertion into a tech. manual. All done in-house. That was a very interesting contract.

Well, I'm sure this post is boring the kids, so I'll end by thanking you for your diligence in pursuit of aiding and abetting our collective ship modeling fetish!

I will be following the PENNSY forums and perhaps join the fray in the near future.

Hank

[Mgunns]

Are there any pictures of Pennsylvania in the Drydock showing the radar array on the foremast? All the pictures I have seen have it censored out.

[BB62vet]

Mark,

I asked this question over on the Main Forum - I have a book on order (it may be in the mailbox, I'm not home 'til tomorrow) that may have the photo we're looking for - it is a more detailed version of the classic drydock photo of PA in drydock at PH but actually shows the bedspring radar on her foremast. There is a NavSource photo from Mare Is, CA in early '42 that shows that radar as well as another long radar screen (V-shaped) on both fore & main FC housing tops. Don't know what these radars are (Mk/Mod), but will look them up once I've had a chance to study all these photos.

Hope this helps,

Hank

[Jeff Sharp]

[Mgunns]

Thanks Hank and Jeff:

Great photo of the radar set up. Now, where do I get one in 1/200? Hmmmmmmm. Lots of sources I suspect.