Calling all Essex-class (WWII configuration) fans

[Hippy Ed]

CV-16
http://wwiiarchives.net/servlet/photo/2757/860

Great site

[Builder 2010]

I've just read this entire thread from page 1 to 85 and, while taking several days to complete, was well worth it. All of the models shown are exceptional and the research from Terry and others was priceless. I am researching a new project, building a very late WWII version of the USS Essex. I would like to paint it to match my current project, a high-scale version of Tamiya's 350 Missouri. I've chosen to depict the ship exactly as it was after the Surrender signing on the way from Tokyo Bay to Pearl. I've chosen this specific configuration since the ship lost it's deck blue teak. The wood decks were holy-stoned back to natural teak during this voyage. I am using ScaleDecks teak laser-cut decking and I don't want to paint it. The Missouri was also painted in Measure 22 which is Navy Blue from the boot topping to the main deck sheer line and haze gray above. All non-wood horizontal surfaces would still be deck blue.

If anyone's interested, I've posted some progress pictures on the Calling All Iowa Class fans thread and a complete build thread on the World Affairs Board website, Modeller's Corner. Here's the URL: http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/modele ... iling.html. In addition to scaledecks, I'm using Eduard's Missouri set, ABER turned brassed main gun barrels, and steel outboard propshafts. I wanted to install brass props, but unfortunately it doesn't seem that any are available for Iowa Class ships and North Carolina props aren't the same size.

I have a couple of requests.

Can I use something similar to Measure 22 for the Essex for this time period. Stated another way, "When was the dazzle scheme removed on CV-9?"

Can someone summarize what changes were made to the Essex between the Trumpeter kit and the August 1945? I know from reading this thread that the flight deck gun director forward of the island was removed, but not sure what else is needed. I know that there are NOT the three 40mm quads on the island side of the upper hull.

As an aside, the reason I ended up at the WorldAffairsBoard.com website was the result of a question I posed on Google about the material and color of the outboard Missouri prop shafts. The answer led to this website on a battleship thread. I posed the question and got some great answers. One was from the former yard superintendent of the San Diego Navy Yard. He supervised the refitting of the Iowa Class ships in the 80s and was familiar with every compartment in the entire vessel. He posted this picture of himself standing on the prop strut. It was amazing. The shafts are steel, 23" in diameter (larger in the bearings) and appear to be painted with white lead or some other anti corrosive material. Here he is:

It's not something you see every day. Anyway, after we dialoged a bit, I was asked to post my build thread on their Modeler's Corner.

[Tracy White]

Welcome to the Essex thread!

Can I use something similar to Measure 22 for the Essex for this time period. Stated another way, "When was the dazzle scheme removed on CV-9?"

My notes show her repainting into Measure 21 probably in December of 1944 after her late November Kamikaze hit. I could be wrong, but we know for sure she was in Measure 21 (overall Navy Blue) by March. She remained in Measure 21 throughout the remainder of the war. There were some ships that were ordered/Scheduled to paint into a 1945 revised Measure 12 substituting Ocean Gray for Haze gray, but none were to use Measure 22. See if the list there changes your plans/desires and if not we'll cover the Essex details.

[Mark McKinnis]

Hold off on buying the kit if you have not bought it already. It may be more beneficial to get the Yorktown CV-10 or Franklin CV-13 kit and build it as Essex. Those two kits represent the class after most of the major re-fits and might eliminate some of the extra work you will have using the Essex kit. Since you are using an after market deck, you will have both Cats so that helps with a late war Essex.

I am looking forward to some pics. Tracy will get you pointed the right direction as far as super details go.

Good Luck,
Mark

[SeanF]

Hold off on buying the kit if you have not bought it already. It may be more beneficial to get the Yorktown CV-10 or Franklin CV-13 kit and build it as Essex. Those two kits represent the class after most of the major re-fits and might eliminate some of the extra work you will have using the Essex kit. Since you are using an after market deck, you will have both Cats so that helps with a late war Essex.

I am looking forward to some pics. Tracy will get you pointed the right direction as far as super details go.

Good Luck,
Mark

Actually, that's one point in favor of using the CV-9 kit. Essex herself didn't get the second cat until her postwar reactivation. So... if the Trumpeter CV-13 kit has later-fit AA but still has a single cat, it would be ideal. I think the CV-10 kit has twin cats, so you'd have to fill-in one of them.

- Sean F.

[Builder 2010]

Glad to be here!

The "kit selection ship" has left the dock. The Essex and the early Hornet were both gifts to me from a parent of one of the kids in my "Grandpop's Scale Model Workshop" session that I ran in the Spring at the community center.

It came about as a result of my grandson, Alex, telling a friend that his grandfather was teaching him how to build scale models. The child (who had a single mom), told his mother about this. The mom asked my daughter "if her father would be willing to teach her son?" She then approached the community center to see if a class could be established. It was. And it was a great success. I had 6, 9-year-old boys attending. We're going to do it again in the Fall and there's a strong possibility that we're going to do a Middle-school version as well.

We moved to Louisville to be near the grandsons and it has worked better than we could have ever expected. I built a splendid workshop in the basement and it has workstations for both grandsons. Alex is more of a model maker than his younger brother, Jack. Jack has the coordination, but lacks the interest. Alex loves the subjects, loves the details and understands what it takes to get there.

I will work with the Essex and see what I can do. I'm not afraid to make modifications, and have lots of experience.

Thanks for the tips.

[Tracy White]

OK, some rough notes for now as I'm at the office and typing this up in short segments from memory.

- Remove the hangar Cat pieces and scratch build a port sponson gun gallery for two quad 40mms.
- Leave off the Mk 51 and "pole" that is aft of the second twin 5" mount... essentially just between this gun and the director (pic)
- Add Mk 51s that are missing (generally on the catwalks above mounts on the hangar deck level.

[Builder 2010]

Thanks Terry!

[Builder 2010]

Terry,
Here's a picture of the Essex (and some of her sisters) in mothballs after WWII. It clearly shows the sponson and the missing gun director. I can see the sponson, but it's a bit ambiguous. Does it have straight or curved edges (the left edge looks curved), and are the underneath parts curved or straight plates?

Were there any additional quad 40s on the starboard side?

In this picture it looks like all the 20mm AAs are gone. Most of them were removed immediately after the war and were no value against the coming jet aircraft. I'm modelling the Missouri after the signing and they started pulling off 20mms within days of the War's end.

Here's my attemp at designing one based on what I could see.

Essex Sponson Design.jpg (18.32 KiB) Viewed 2474 times

[keithhufnagel]

You should contact Chris Toops who has been down this trail before. I'm sure he could be a wonderful aid in your project. He is in the Gallery section for Essex CV-9. He is very friendly and would love to help I'm sure. Just my 2-cents.

[Tracy White]

I second Keith's recommendation for Chris; I helped him out as well and he's pretty familiar with the ship.

With regards to the sponson gallery; you're fairly close. There are three variations I've identified; two have curved partial tubs and one is flat. CV-9 had one of the curved ones and it's similar to what you've drawn, only without any enclosed "rings" behind the outer splinter shield. Below is a shot of Lexington in 1945 illustrating this design:



The long-hulls such as Ticonderoga and Hancock had a similar design, but with the forward gun up against the corner, giving enough room to put the two Mk 51 directors between and behind the gun mounts. Since the Navy originally planned on putting a Mk 37 director in this location, I'm not sure if the platform was shaped or proportioned any different on these ships. Note that the forward splinter shield has a bit of a rise to it as it moves forward; I haven't dug through all of my Essex shots yet but I can't remember if I have one that shows her *not* having this. Every other ship I've seen did.

[Builder 2010]

Terry, that's very helpful. Is the director for these mounts the one hanging on the gallery deck rail above the sponson? Also, it's still hard to see what's going on underneath. It looks like my interpretation has a deeper bottom skirt. Chris wonders why everyone is picking him. He and I wrote PMs to each other and he said his was a 1944 version and beyond that he was far from an expert. He claims you're the real expert and got him through his build.

[Tracy White]

You're going to have to get some plans to answer the underneath question; The only sets I have are all copy written and nothing I can repost here (Floating Drydock CV-13 Franklin and some books).

There are three director tubs on the catwalk in the photo I posted; the very left one is for the gun visible at the very left, next to the open 5" gallery. The one immediately to the right of it is for the forward sponson mount, and the one right above this mount, in the middle of the image, is for the aft sponson gun.

[Dick J]

Wasn't Lex the first ship of the class to have the two quads on the catapult sponson? She had them after her torpedo damage repairs in Feb '44.

[EJM]

I'm looking for more pictures of the aircraft elevators on Essex Class carriers, particuarly underneath the elevators and/or the cable/hoist mechanisms used to raise/lower them. I found this picture here:
http://www.navsource.org/archives/02/0212afa.jpg
.......of an elevator at the bow end of a carrier. Are there any pics of the elevator near the stern area of an Essex carrier?

[Tracy White]

I can't get that photo to load right now, but generally the fore and aft elevators were the same. Hydraulic pistons and not cables due to the required tempos and weights of the aircraft. There was an "emergency elevator" in the aft elevator well that rose to the level of the hangar deck and covered maybe 1/3 to 1/2 of the elevator well opening so that they still had room to more aircraft around. You can see the pistons and a bit of detail of the aft elevator in The Fighting Lady at about the 5:20 mark (one pass heading aft and then another moving forward).

Edit - got the photo to load. Be aware that's a post-war shot with a different elevator than as-launched.

[DennisJP]

I missed this earlier, sorry.

Does it have perforated catwalks?

If so, can you comment on your experience with the available perforated catwalk PE set in terms of fit and ease-of-use (for the 1/350 Trumpeter kit)?

All of the ships had the perforated catwalks.
But all of the PE sets represent these catwalks wrong as well. I know why; Trumpeter simplified this area and it would be a lot easier to go with the flow than to introduce a whole new level of complexity that most modelers won't even notice.

The catwalks on the Yorktown and Essex class were raised maybe 1/4-1/3 up from what was termed the gallery level deck. This was the deck immediately underneath the flight deck. There were openings from this level out to the catwalks; open archways, as they were called. Depending on the height of the catwalk at that point there were steps up from those openings to the catwalkproper, so there were in effect little wells in the catwalks around these openings. And there were quite a few of these openings.

The PE catwalks lack the wells because Trumpter didn't include the archways. To do it "properly" one has to contract a health dose of AMS and chop off the bulkheads underneath the flight deck, make new ones with the archways, and chop up the PE to make the wells and steps down. I haven't figured out an easy way to do this yet. It may be that the best solution is to use black paint to represent the archways.

I know what your talking about. These passage way's were designed with an archway at the outer skin but inside there is a space with a darken ship screen with a hatch behind that enters into the interior.
I was on the Nimitz and these are there as well.
Yes, when you walk out of the arch you are below catwalk level. The space is inclosed usually with a steel porthole with out glass in the end and a stairway to the left or the right going up to the catwalk.
In this design the catwalk was a little wider near the front so people could come up the stairs and not make people stop if their walking past on the catwalk. There was usually another set of stairs as well on the backside of the catwalk access stairs that went up to a platform so you could step onto the flight deck.
Yes, I have seen these also especially in the Yorktown CV-5 class.

[DennisJP]

I would build this by putting the enclosure built to design under the catwalk with an access hole in the catwalk up against the bulkhead of the side of the ship leaving one end of the enclosure open for the stairs that will come up to the catwalk. Careful study of the enclosure will determine design and which way the stairs go to the catwalk and if any port holes in the enclosure bellow the catwalk level. I hope this helps.

[DennisJP]

Gathering info for my Yorktown CV-10 model as well as Essex Class info for future models. Found a slight difference in the late war islands and saw a piece of equipment I was wondering on what it is? The tall piece of equipment covered by a canvas cover where the 40 mm gun tube used to be forward of the island and behind #2 5" gun turrent? This is Bunker Hill.

[DennisJP]

Sorry, some how my image was deleted I posted for the above question. Here it is again.